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How Far Is Too Far?

December 8, 2015

Greetings,

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”  2nd Corinthians 3: 17

Over four years ago when I was praying and seeking the Lord concerning the possibility of starting this blog, Jesus showed me several objectives.  The one I want to talk about today is freedom.  This blog is supposed to be a free and open place where non-traditional followers of Jesus can share the things the Lord has been showing them.  In large part I feel we have accomplished that goal.

However, today I am in the process of being rebuked by some who feel I have allowed too much freedom these past several years.  Words like heresy and false teaching are being used.  Some people say that by allowing different unorthodox comments and posts concerning the validity of certain parts of scripture…. and other “church” practices, that I am somehow endorsing and promoting gross error.  As always, with everyone, I will prayerfully consider what is being presented to me as my sin.  If the Lord convicts me of said sin I will then surely repent. However, right now I do not see things that way.  I have also been told by one to reject, avoid, and break fellowship with one of the people who has shared  difficult, unorthodox series of comments here in times past.

I will not break fellowship with anyone unless the Lord, Himself directs me to do so.  I am totally serious about my relationship with Jesus and those who follow Him.  Rejecting someone on the basis of several internet comments on a blog that was designed to foster dialogue concerning difficult problems in the Church today is not at all the way of Christ or HIS Body.

Just where are we supposed to talk about what scripture really says about true “church” leadership or ANYTHING else?  Some are fortunate enough to have fellowships free and open enough to handle such discussions, but the sad fact is that in most “churches” you would be condemned and judged for even questioning what scripture really says.  I firmly believe that the best way to deal with real or imagined heresy or error is to get it out into the open and expose it to the Light.  Then dialogue over it until some point of agreement can be made, even if that agreement is to end the discussion and possibly part ways for the time being.  Some say I am too “harsh” or “extreme” in my views and commentary on the sad state of the traditional/institutional “church” system, and too “free” and “open” where it comes to free and open, Spirit led fellowship.

Well, here we are now all out in the open.  I now willingly and publicly ask for your accountability in this matter.  To anyone who reads and follows this blog:  Do I allow things to go too far?  Have I sinned by giving questionable theology some free air time?  Or does all of our theology need to be questioned and pushed to the limits at times?  I say QUESTION AND TEST EVERYTHING!  GOD IS MORE THAN BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT!  If Luther and the other so called reformers did not question the church and its theology we might all still be Roman Catholics.  What does everyone have to say?  Please encourage or rebuke me with all authority?  I give you all free permission.  Please be free and share whatever you feel led to?

Love and …..

Kirk Out !

P.s.  I had a very small growth beneath my right eye removed today.  According to the Dr. it did not look suspicious, but they sent the biopsy to the lab anyway.  So I would surely appreciate your prayers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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24 Comments
  1. I find no fault in you.

  2. I find no fault in your words.

  3. Tom Ball permalink

    Cchris, I have ALWAYS found you to be open in conversation and willing to engage in self-examination. This has been your way since I first knew you as a high school student in my youth group. It remains your way today. I applaud your efforts on this blog, and stand in support of you… even if I do think sometimes the traditional church gets here a few too many smacks up side the head 🙂

    • Thank you Tom Ball. I was never actually a member of your youth group, but visited several times because I had dear friends there. Then, even though you were not keen on Jesus rock music, you allowed me to do a presentation on it…playing some tunes and laying out how scripture supported such righteous rock and roll. Thank you for that opportunity and open mindedness.

  4. Suzy Crees permalink

    I have never found fault in your writings. I appreciate your openness and honesty. I believe that you always try to follow the leading of the Lord and write what is on your heart.

  5. Kathleen Harper permalink

    Keep the open dialogue – for every question presented, there are hundreds out there wondering about the same thing and wishing they had the courage to bring up the topic. if we can’t talk about the difficult questions in this forum, then what do we do when strangers hit us with the same questions, out on the street? Too often our replies have been, “Well, that was the way I was raised” or “I just have faith in God” which leaves the non-believers shaking their heads, muttering about our foolish way of life and moving on. God is big enough to handle everything we bring to Him and I believe He expects the same from us. He loves ALL of us, not just the ones who think they deserve it. P.S. I pray your eye is healthy and you are on your way to recovery.

  6. Dan permalink

    Your blog is balanced. I enjoy it. Please don’t change.

  7. Enjoy your blog. You tell it like it is! Where does that really happen? Since I don’t yet have a full on home church I don’t always like what I read, but I sense truth and so that resonates and moves my heart toward it. I thank you.y

  8. Ramma permalink

    Amen to everyone ‘s comments here! Chris, this is a wonderful place to fellowship and grow. Love the discussions etc. There is always love in your comments even when people come in and badger you. Never disconnect from anyone because someday they may light your path or you may light theirs. Love you! Healing to your eye!

  9. daryl permalink

    the blog is good.I really enjoy how every few days you have something new to share…not many others out there do that.One of the problems with the institutional church is their minds are already made up and they don’t allow for any discussion that “threatens” their beliefs and practices. Pastors will warn congregants not to read certain books or listen to certain men…as if we don’t even have the Holy Spirit to guide and lead us! Will pray for your eye.

  10. Ken Blake permalink

    Chris,
    The Lord has encouraged Carol and I through many of your blogs. Occasionally we openly discuss what we feel God has shown/confirmed to us in your writing. However, the most important thing is that when you stopped in Inverness for a brief visit, you were able to minister the love of Christ to a friend who was here. We have seen the love of Christ in you! Praise the Lord. Please pray for our friend because she is currently seeking employment.

    I would like to encourage you concerning your biopsy. I just had stitches removed from above my right eyebrow. This was my fifth surgery for skin cancer. The first time I was quite fearful until the Lord filled me with His peace. While you are awaiting results from your biopsy, I pray you will rest in His peace regardless of the outcome. Thank you Jesus!

    Love in Jesus,
    Ken Blake

  11. Angela Dutcher permalink

    I do think sometimes you are hard on churches and categorize them all iinto one group. Just bcuz people meet in a building, have a pastor, and people sit and listen to him speak… Doesn’t make for a bad way of teaching and learning. Just as all Christians shouldn’t be categorized as someone like Jim Jones or all Muslims like Saddam Hussein. That is my only issue….Some things are messed up and not right but we shouldn’t assume all churches, Christians, or Muslims are. I do think your blog is good but sometimes you go to far with slamming churches which I think is unnecessary. You can’t be totally right and them totally wrong. And that’s the way it comes off at times. I’m not talking compromise just balance.

    • When I say hard things I am not doing so in a harsh, bitter, mean manner. I harbor no malice towards anyone in or out of the IC system. I just say these things in a casual matter of fact manner. I am not angry or upset with anyone. All I do is share what the Holy Spirit leads me to, in sincere love.

  12. Chad permalink

    This blog is excellent just the way it is. It’s not your job to make sure things are “right.” What would blocking “unorthodox comments” accomplish anyway? I believe Jesus is fine with accepting people who think differently. I don’t think Jesus is fine with rejecting people he has accepted. We should error on the side of acceptance. You trust the Spirit to guide people as much as anyone I know. Keep doing that and everything will be fine.

  13. "BK" permalink

    Hmmmmm, well let’s remember Jesus was taken to task for thinking outside the box of the Jewish religion of His day too! And ‘slamming’ it too 🙂 Sometimes I have thought you got a bit off balance on some things but PRAISE GOD! That’s what fellowship is all about….the upper and nether stone grinding out the wheat to get the life giving flour to make edible bread from. And I am also thankful to say (as I believe any who have read here for any length of time) that I have seen you yourself balanced in the discussions here. Don’t feel too bad about those who want to rebuke you….I’ve taken some pretty severe verbal beatings just from sharing some of what I thought was EXCELLENT that I read here and that others would enjoy it.” 🙂 Doesn’t always happen that way. Jesus said if we drink any deadly thing it won’t hurt us. And remember the children of Israel when they were gathering for the dinner pot and someone threw in wild gourds and someone cried out, “There’s poison in the pot!” All that had to be done is some meal thrown in to ‘balance’ it and the whole thing was edible. I’ve seen that here alot. It’s a good, healthy place. Carry on! “BK”

  14. "BK" permalink

    Laughing as I signed off as I remembered once in the church I came out of the pastor (a PRECIOUS man) had been told he needed to put out some of the radical people in his church and he told them he would not. He never said who those questionable people were but as we stood around after the meeting that day you could hear, “You? Oh no! It was ME they wanted out, I know it…..” and so on. I bet there’s several of us radicals thinking, “It’s me those people think puts poison here…..” 🙂 It’s good to have a place to call home. Hugz, “BK”

  15. lila1jpw permalink

    I am amazed at your humility in the face of scorn and criticism and will definitely support you in prayer.
    As for your facial surgery, I too have had a growth removed from my face. It was a cancer, but one that would get bigger but not jump somewhere else. Cancer is such a scary word, but it is not a “death sentence.” I keep reminding myself that as followers of Christ we need to realize that we are “dead men walking.” Count yourself as dead, but alive in Christ!

  16. Nathan Lambshead permalink

    Yahweh does not call for, nor expect, everyone to think the same. Only religion does that. He is Spirit (heart) not mental. Religion can only control the mind/will/thoughts/emotions, but has no jurisdiction over the spirit, which is bought and paid for by Yeshua.
    So…my thoughts about worrying if you are ‘straying’ in doctrine, is that only the religious are concerned that you are ‘straying’ from THEIR doctrine. Father encourages thought and questions. Especially of man’s traditions.

  17. Good article. You are speaking on subjects that will for sure bring rebuke from the traditional church crowd. We have grown up in a time when that is about all we know (organized church and religion), and hearing things that contradict what we have been taught will not be accepted well. Just kind of proves to me that what you are saying is the truth. As far as fellowship, I too agree, we should be loving and kind to everyone. Just because people have different viewpoints and lifestyles, doesn’t mean they aren’t as important. We can learn from each other, and we can show the love of God to those who aren’t used to receiving such treatment. Jesus associated with everyone, and accepted those the religious crown tried to avoid. I think we should be doing the same, no matter what the religious say.

    • "BK" permalink

      Once, when I was so discouraged at the rejection of anything outside the gate by the religious world of Christianity the Lord reminded me when Jesus came He walked into 2,000 of keeping Moses’ law and they crucified Him. Well, guess what…..we are now 2,000 years down the pike of of ‘Christianity’ and get the same response. Another time when I was discouraged at the Body of Christ not ‘coming together’ (doctrinally 🙂 ) the Lord spoke to me and said, “Until My people learn to love in their differences, they’ve never really learned to love at all.” All hard sayings for a girl in a group who felt they were THE ONES chosen by God. I have to smile now……what a journey, “BK”

  18. I really appreciate all of your comments, support and positivity. Angie, I am so glad that you felt free enough here to challenge my bold stance concerning institutional “church”. Free and open dialogue is so precious and that is why I oppose “churches” that value monologues and sermons over and above Spirit led conversation. I do not feel that I use too broad a negative brush when describing the modern “churches” failure to equip and make true disciples. I seriously try not to use words like “all” and “every” in my criticism of the traditional “church”. I am certain that not all churches and Pastors are evil or toxic, but I am as led by the Spirit comfortable at saying many of them are WAY off base and lacking the Truth in Love. I hate the IC system, but love all the folks that find themselves there no matter the reason. I will ALWAYS advocate for FREEDOM and oppose religious bondage wherever it may be found, including house churches. Thanks again everybody for sharing here. I love you all!

  19. Rock on, brother!

  20. Jewell Price permalink

    Open dialogue and questioning is important and certainly lacking in IC. I left the IC mainly because there was such a closed, male-dominated system that quenched any questioning of any kind. It is nice to read the struggles of others in their search for Truth and know you won’t be forced out or ridiculed, or labeled as a trouble-maker if you have questions of your own. Keep up the good work.

    • Giovanni permalink

      I am sometimes greeted with ad hominem scorn and rebuke too, but their arguments are usually because their institutional indoctrination. I believe we will see a reformation, and we will see change, but we wont see it if we give up teaching the truth. I receive more positive encouragement now than negative.

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