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More Questions From Spock

January 12, 2015
     Today’s blog is a continuation of a conversation I had with a friend I will call Spock once again here…
     Spock said, “However, without a Bible, what do we know about the Holy Ghost?  What source do we have for any knowledge of God, and the Holy Ghost, if not Bible? “
     Spock and all,  It seems to me that you are forgetting the most important source of all…. Direct Revelation.  The Spirit leads us into and teaches us “all truth”, that is what Jesus said anyway.  The bible is a great resource, but the source is God Himself.  I mean WHY SETTLE FOR A POST CARD WHEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY TAKE THE TRIP?  True one on one contact and communion with Jesus is what I am talking about.  I mean do you prefer to hear directly from Him, or from a book about Him?
     Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and obey and He literally meant that we can actually hear His voice.  Yes Jesus does totally speak to us with His voice, but the real question is are we listening?  Do we discount or ignore that still small voice or do we take what we hear from Him and run with it?
     I will admit this though, the times I often hear His voice is when I am reading the bible.  He guides and directs me concerning where to turn to in the bible and what I need to read at any given moment for my benefit and the good of The Body.  Other times He speaks to me and leads me in what I am supposed to share with other people along the way.
     The key to me is do we want to merely know ABOUT Jesus from a book, or do we really want to Know Jesus directly?  There is a huge difference between knowing Him and just knowing about Him. The difference is relationship!  You can’t have a relationship with a book, even the best book.  But if you desire you can have a relationship with Jesus via The Spirit.
     In closing two songs come to mind and most Christians base their life and theology on one of these two simple little songs.  The first song is “The B.I.B.L.E.  yes that’s the book for me, I stand alone on the Word of God, The B.I.B.L.E.”  The second song is the one I choose to sing, “You ask me how I know He lives, He lives within my heart.”  It seems to me that one of these songs is more legalistic than the other, and the other song is more relational than the other.
     This is all very real and personal to me and I just want others to open up more to Jesus and His Spirit.  So that we can all be led by Him and in turn love others like He does.  So don’t throw away your bible, but please also be listening for His voice.  He can and does lead us.  Again, Jesus said, “My sheep HEAR My voice and obey.”
Love and …..
Kirk Out !

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  1. Once again WordPress would not publish this post with the proper paragraph breaks. So I indented the paragraphs to help with readability.

  2. Stan Meador permalink

    1 John 4:1 “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

    Simple question – With what do we test the spirits?

  3. Great question Stan! We decide by the witness of the Holy Spirit, The witness of the Body of Christ, and the witness of the bible.

  4. Duane permalink

    Yes, and if these three things are in agreement then you know that what is being tested is capital T,. True! I agree with Chris on this that we place too much emphasis on the Bible. Did spiritual revelation end 2000 years ago? I think not.

  5. Stan Meador permalink

    I disagree. When we look at the situation in Acts 15 we see a distinct progression of testing. When the question was being considered by the apostles and elders Peter stood up and testified of his experience among the Gentiles. Then Barnabas and Paul stood up and testified about their experiences among the Gentiles. Then James spoke up and said, “Brothers…the words of the prophets are in agreement with this.” When the personal experiences of Peter, Barnabas and Paul were seen to be in agreement with Scripture they were accepted as valid.

    The Bible was the authoritative source, for the apostles, in determining whether conclusions drawn from personal experience were true.

  6. Stan, I agree that the bible was and is an authoritative source to help us determine truth and error, but THE Final Authority in ALL matters is God Himself, Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit. As followers of Christ we are to be Spirit led, NOT bible led. Knowing full well that the Spirit will most often lead us to scripture in matters of faith and practice.

  7. The Wesleyan Quadrilateral: scripture, reason, experience, and tradition, past and present, is another proposed approach at arriving or affirming truth.

    I like what Nee pointed out about the word that was used for truth in Jn 14:6: It is reality and Jesus is our ultimate reality. To know Jesus is to know reality. If we rely on our ability to know Him through a compilation of ancient texts through various translations and within our modern context and understanding, I think we will always fall woefully short of anything approximating a full apprehension of Him who is all and in all.

    A little side note that most everyone probably already knows, but they did not have the Bible in Acts. They had the Septuagint, a poor translation of ancient Hebrew texts.

  8. Stan Meador permalink

    Even though Chris derides the Septuagint, and I don’t believe that is all they had access to in Acts (for the Jewish believers had grown up with the Hebrew texts in Temple and Synagogue), Paul clearly states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

    Your idea that the Spirit leads us into and teaches us all truth is derived from taking one statement from Scripture and ignoring how it relates to several other texts which speak to the role of Scripture in the life of followers of Jesus.

    When two different people make opposing truth claims from personal revelation how does one determine which is actually true (if either)?

    The ultimate deciding factor to truth claims is Scripture.

    I will agree to disagree with you so as not to turn this into a belabored debate in which neither will convince the other.

    • Stan, By placing scripture in the ultimate position you are putting it above God Himself which I believe is a form of idolatry. To place a created thing in a place equal to or greater than God is the pure definition of idolatry. Only God is the ULTIMATE anything. However, I will also agree to disagree with you on this point.

  9. Ramma permalink

    Great conversation! I have always wondered why Jesus never instruced anyone to write anything down, nor did He instruct them to follow what was written. But He promised the Comforter who would also guide us into ALL truth. That is written more than once. I love and respect the scriptures as does everyone in here. Our Lord and Savior needs to remain in His proper place daily. LORD AND SAVIOR of our lives. He alone is the final authority in ALL things and yes, it is by the Holy Spirit. Man still wants to hold onto “law”,tbut Col 2….it wad nailed to the cross. We are not to judge one another’s decision to do or not do anything. Blessings

  10. Ramma permalink

    Have you ever noticed that there is never confusion or division on anything that Jesus taught, but everything that has been written by man leads to division and confusion? We cannot agree completely on things because of the way it has been worded. Makes one wonder doesn’t it? Just some more thoughts

  11. Stan Meador permalink

    Well, you misconstrued my statement. I did not say that Scripture was superior to God. Please don’t twist my words.

    In God’s self-revelation He makes it clear that He is revealing Himself specifically to mankind through the Scriptures. Psalm 19 states beautifully the difference between natural revelation and Divine revelation in Scripture. Through the former you can know that there is a God. Through the latter you can know His desire and method to redeem mankind.

    God is clear in His self-revelation the role that His self-revelation is to play. When God says that His self-revelation is how we know about Him then it is not idolatry to use that self-revelation in the manner that He as assigned to it. Nor is it idolatry to use His self-revelation (the Bible, in case you didn’t know that is what I was talking about) to judge the veracity of truth claims in our day.

  12. Stan, I am not trying to twist your words. Jesus Himself said that it was/is the Holy Spirit that does indeed lead us into all truth. It is not just another bible quote, it is the direct words of our Savior. I agree that, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Useful it is! The final authority it is not! I apologize if I misrepresented your words, it was not my intent.

  13. Duane permalink

    Stan. the Bible as we know it was put together well after the Disciples were buried. Most of the New Testament was written by various people wrote about in the New Testament books. John and Paul who Christians use for guidance today was not available to the Disciples in any collected form.

  14. Stan Meador permalink

    Thank you for clarifying Kirk! All is forgiven. And, I agree to disagree with you. Peace.

    Duane – 2 Peter 3.15-16 shows Peter talking about Paul’s writing – they include some things that are hard to understand. In the same sentence Peter then speaks of “the other Scriptures”. It appears that Peter considers said writings of Paul as Scripture just as he does “the other Scriptures” to which he refers. Holding Peter’s authorship to be true, this would mean that Paul’s writings, in some form, were being circulated and held as Scripture by 64 AD.

    I am not saying the complete NT was compiled. Clearly Paul’s statement to Timothy refers to the OT. Peter’s statement seems to holds Paul’s writings on the same level as the OT. So, some of the NT was already esteemed as Scripture by 64 AD, which, shockingly enough, implies that some of Paul’s writing were esteemed as Scripture before his martyrdom.

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