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There Is Only One King

November 7, 2014

Greetings,

“So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah.  They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”  But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord.  And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king.  As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking Me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you.  Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.”  1 Samuel 8: 4-9

So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking for a king.  Samuel then basically said that the king they desired would take advantage of them, using up their sons and daughters, taking a tenth (a tithe) of their crops and flocks, and eventually making all of them slaves to the king. 1 Samuel 8: 10-17  (My paraphrase)

“When that day comes , you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the Lord will not answer you in that day.”  But the people refused to listen to Samuel.  ”No!” they said. “We want a king over us.  Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”  When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord.  The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”  1 Samuel 8: 18-22

Any of this sound familiar?  Because I sure see a modern parallel in the “church” today.  The Lord has always wanted to be the one true King and Leader of His children/church, but most of the time He is rejected and instead the church wants a human King/Leader/Pope or Pastor.  I see this happen all the time, even in relational housechurches that are supposed to be about the Priesthood of all believers under only Jesus the King of Kings.  I believe that most people give in to “needing” a human leader because they get tired of the responsibility of hearing God for themselves.  Being a Spirit led follower of Jesus is not an easy task.  It takes discipline and a continual surrender and death to self.  It takes trading our ways for HIS way.    However, when the rubber hits the road many times we would rather have someone tell us the right thing to do, instead of trusting the voice of The Spirit to lead us in ALL things.

People want or think they need a Pastor because they want to be like all the other Pastor led Christians out there.  They want the so called safety net of being under a human leader because they doubt their own ability to hear God for themselves.  Who hasn’t been there?  It is understandable to want to be like all the other “regular” church goers out there. Instead of being an outcast Jesus freak. Problem is that God Himself has called all of us to be under only HIS rule and authority.  HE has made it abundantly clear that HE wants to be our ONLY Leader/King/Shepherd and HE has warned us to avoid being UNDER a human Pastor/Leader/King.  To serve a human Pastor is to reject Jesus as The Good Shepherd and King of our hearts.   Will God allow us to follow others instead of Him?  Sure, because He is not a dictator and He has given us the great gift of free will.  However, what will following someone other than Him cost us?  Only our sons, daughters, crops, livestock, ten percent of our money and our freedom.  To follow and serve someone other than Jesus will cost us everything in this life.  To me following someone other than Jesus is to become a slave to Babylon and its programs and systems.

Strong words?  They certainly are, but are they true?  I have spoken my peace and I refuse to judge others for the choices they make in these matters, but I will warn them.  My final word on this:  Follow Jesus !

Love and……

Kirk Out !

P.s.  Rocky and I made it safe & sound to Wellsville New York and we had some wonderful fellowship playing brain teaser games here tonight.

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26 Comments
  1. Yes, you are correct man follows other men, the same as others have others they look up to, whether in a church building or not. It is what it is, and truth you spoke clear.
    do you think God has Children in the church. and do you think God has Pastors in the Church of Today. For the only true Tabernacle, not church is in Heaven as per Hebrews 8:1-4, The Tabernacle he built.
    Now about the word Church itself. Is not the correct translation from the Greek original text, which I am betting you know this as well. Church is the translation Building. They used the word Ecclesia and put the word Church in it’s place, when ecclesia means the called out one’s, not a building. So god call me out, you out and all who will walk by Faith to and fro we go. One to that building another stays out and does there job receiving those that decide on their own between God and them to come out. God, Father has got a plan. And each if his Children are called differently here in this world to go here and there. to do Father’s Job through Son Christ, whom Father enlivens.
    EX: Holyfield and Tyson fight, the first one. Holyfield came out wearing Christ and Tyson Islam. It was like Elijah against the prophets in his day of Jezebel. Christ was in the arena through Holyfield and the night he showed God’s Holy Field. Father strategically places each of us all in strategic places for those that really do want to know him, like Saul, before he became Paul.
    So how do we go about this, to reach those that are called, that are set in the Churches Doctrines?

  2. David Pantele permalink

    Kirk’s article is the most absurd, blatant example of eisegesis I’ve ever seen…rivaling the most outlandish of charismatic examples that come to mind. You cannot use an old testament model for the theocracy God had established and then read that into the new testament structure for leadership the church. Scripture isn’t your own personal playpen to do with what you want. It is God’s Word – and you’re manipulating it’s intent in an act of blatant insubordination toward God’s plan for the Body of Christ. You’re not just a little off center – you’ve established yourself as a false teacher. You are in my prayers.

    • Reformed by the Spirit permalink

      Mr. Pantele, you strike me as an educated person. Please tell me how those in the early church came upon a new standard by which they would form the hierarchy structure that we now employ in modern day churches? (…that would differentiate them from practices found in the Old Testament). Please, also, tell me how the Old Testament understanding of a relationship with God was abolished with Christ. (does this include the abolishing of the law, in your opinion?)
      I am looking forward to your reply.

  3. David, I will continue to use and apply the scripture exactly as the Holy Spirit leads me to. It seems you are stuck in some pretty serious dogma there yourself. Thank you for sharing your portion with us though, you will also be in my prayers,

  4. David Pantele permalink

    I appreciate your forbearance in the face of criticism….I half expected you not to post it. But since we’re discussing the issue…leaving aside the issue at hand in favor of a more foundational consideration, it really is a matter of interpretation. I fully respect that you consider your viewpoint to be a matter of the Spirit’s leading, but if you’re going to put Him on the hook for what you’re advocating, what you are basically saying is that your personal promptings are the hermeneutic through which you interpret Scripture….which then, becomes the reason you can use as an acceptable parallel how God established a theocracy as the basis for how He expects the church to be led. This is problematic, Kirk. Anyone could claim anything they want by citing “how God is leading” them. I would think having a consistent exegetical basis derived from sound hermeneutics would be a more appropriate way of interpreting Scripture…an objective basis, rather than the relativistic approach in citing what you think God is telling you. As for me, you say I’m stuck in some serious dogma. Where? It is not dogma for me to expect theology regarding the church to come from Scripture designed to lead the church. One could literally contrive any teaching they desire by approaching Scripture that way. You think this is acceptable?

  5. David, scripture was not “designed to lead the church”. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us to all Truth, NOT the bible. So we must be Spirit led and NOT bible led. I have no problem with posting responses that differ from my personal beliefs. Everyone’s portion is valuable and needed in the Body of Christ.

  6. David Pantele permalink

    Oh my goodness! I actually had to read that twice to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating. So, I’m supposed to throw away my Bible and rely on personal promptings which you’ve misconstrued as the Spirit’s leadings? Are you joking? Ya know, earlier, I thought it might have been a bit of a stretch when I labeled you a false teacher…but now you’ve affirmed it. In two hours, you’ve leaked all over the place by reading your own personal convictions from the new testament into the old testament…attributed it to the Spirit’s leading, and then suggested that I throw away my Bible in favor of your teaching. What next? Cyanide in the kool aid? Scripture makes us wise unto salvation. And it is Scripture in II Timothy 3 that is able to make the man of God “perfect, complete” and equip him for every good work. Your problem is that you have a low view of Scripture sufficiency. Yes, the Spirit leads us, but He does that THROUGH THE WORD…not through our personal inflections and intuitions. Given the right sphere of influence, it is precisely people like you who, through the ages, have said, “Listen to me…you don’t need the Bible” in the formulation of various cults and false religions which have arisen throughout the church age. Sorry, Kirk…you’re a heretic. And every true believer should be mortified by your last post. We’ll see what this group is made of in the next few hours.

    • "BK" permalink

      Wow, David, you sure use alot of big words but I don’t think you have carefully read what Christopher has said here. Never did he say (nor does he) to throw out your Bible. I find that when this type of discussion comes up most people shut down when they hear to be Spirit led and not Bible led and it’s pretty downhill from there. He isn’t saying that. In fact, the Scripture does bear out the things he says. One example is Jesus when He said “after My departure the Spirit of truth will lead you into all truth” (said simply), not a little black book. In fact, when all those references we read about ‘the Word’ were written in the letters and scrolls, there was no Bible. The early church had to be Spirit led. So, calm a bit and carefully read what he is saying. I don’t think you’ll find such heresy if you would do that. “BK”

    • "BK" permalink

      David, you are aware, I presume, that when the term ‘the word’ was written in those letters during the early church there was no Bible for it to be referring to??? And that even the Jews who did believe in the Torah didn’t all have a scroll in their home to refer to? Just wondering…..”BK”

  7. David, Pretty strong judgements and condemnation you are speaking there. I never said to throw your bible away. Actually I have a very high view of Scripture just beneath The Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word of God, not the bible. And Jesus said quite clearly in the scriptures that it will be the Holy Spirit leading us into ALL Truth. THis definitely means we are supposed to be Spirit led in ALL things, including our time in the bible. The book is a great tool when used when being guided by the Spirit, but it does not lead us to all truth.

  8. David, What I don’t understand is how you can assume that you know my heart and intentions so very well when you have only just met me and read a few short paragraphs.

  9. Excellent post. People find it difficult to believe that Christ wants to be their pastor. However, He called Himself the good shepherd (pastor) and He is called “that great shepherd (pastor) of the sheep.” Thanks for speaking the truth in love!

  10. Debi permalink

    David…sir…brother…Let me ask you a couple questions. First, where in scripture we are told that it is only by sound, hermeneutical principles that we are to understand and interpret scripture? (which, by the way, are an invention of men). Second, do you not believe the scriptures when they say more than once that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth?

    What is correct here, sir, is that you are the one in error and a false teacher by using any other method to interpret and understand scripture than by the illumination of the Holy Spirit, and by advocating a man-made method for understanding it. Kirk has followed the scriptures more than you have, in this case. Your religion and doctrine show you to be nothing short of a Pharisee, when you accuse a brother of basic heresy and false teaching when it is YOU who is falling short of the actual scriptures.

  11. No one knows another’s heart. Only God does, and God knows all. Knows man’s thoughts, the truths behind what anyone posts or not. The motive. so if your Motive is good between God and you, what need is there to do or say or cause any wars. You both and others have said there peace, and is starting to be completely out of alignment, one defending the others view that they have,
    So please no accusations, just each ask Father if you believe to see what the other is saying or not, and be to yourself, wise as a serpent, and remain harmless as a dove and not be A judge will yeah please
    Romans 14:4New International Version (NIV)

    4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

    praying for us all here to learn truth over the error, which is fighting each other. did Jesus fight back or go all the way, with the art of fighting without fighting and is won by the resurrection or not?
    I don’t care where you go to find and learn, why? Because of the
    scripture Romans 14:4
    thank you Lord Jesus and Savior Father to the new life in Spirit and truth, by your resurrected Son Jesus

  12. "BK" permalink

    Howard, it is good when we can actually learn that a discussion, with both (or many) sides ‘discussing’ and clarifying their views. I haven’t seen anything out of alignment yet, just questions for clarification. I agree when mud starts flying we’re ‘digging too deep’ but you don’t have to fear discussion. Just because in days past or present discussions have turned into free for alls doesn’t mean it is the rule. Relax brother….hold your breath and pray….but relax. Love, “BK”

    • Mud was starting to sling look back and see, accusations were a coming not from Chris
      “. Your religion and doctrine show you to be nothing short of a Pharisee, when you accuse a brother of basic heresy and false teaching when it is YOU who is falling short of the actual scriptures.”
      that was Deb’s quote in protecting Chris, who needs no protection. I have no problem with mudslinging either. this side Chris’s was not slinging, until it caught Deb’s eye and as she was writing she ended wit her accusation back in almost the same degree as David directly did without asking Questions for Chris’s view. I have come close to the same and see today to just ask to please clarify and say I get this understanding and he can say no this is what I meant. now that is a good discussion of the issue. I think oif I had nor said what I said when said David might have come back with more angst.
      Now praying you understand why I said what I said, and am nor heated over it as you apparently think, nor ever have been over any miscommunications. how doers anyone learn unless they ask in tactful ways
      Wise as a serpent, harmless as doves, Matt 10:16-20. Courts and Synagogues are plainly this world, no matter where one is at in it.

  13. Wow, I am a little late to the party here!

    Much of what I wanted to write has already been written…

    Yes, Chris does have a low view of the “sufficiency of scripture.” Since when do Christians get by on what is sufficient? Scripture affirms what Chris has written and also says we gain over and above anything we would ever think in Christ, and it was Christ Jesus who said He would send the Spirit to lead us in all truth. That is the riches in Christ that Chris is alluding to here…the sufficiency of a real relationship with the Godhead.

    David, why are you stuck in the Pastoral Epistles? Why do you think everything must be agreed upon? The early church was full of differences, and they had no notion whatsoever until the Pastoral Epistles came along. But we can save that discussion for another day.

    David, what is your hermeneutic? I can assure you whatever it is is can be biased an manipulated as well.

    Heresy is a serious charge, well at least it was in centuries past. Chris is no heretic. Perhaps the word you are looking for heterodox? Different from what you believe?

    There are lost of Christians who agree with Chris. Further, what about all those brothers and sisters over the centuries that were rock solid in the faith yet did not even have a bible? Are they to be deemed heretics as well, at least in practice, perhaps passively? Hogwash.

    I have known Chris personally for almost 20 years. He is one of the most solid brothers in Christ that I know.

    Call him a prophet, call him a teacher, even and perhaps especially an evangelist, but he is no heretic. 😉

    P.S. David, read Ezekiel 34. Wondering how you might interpret that?

    • I agree as I have hung around through the ropes in discussions with him. amen David hope you will get off the doctrine box of 2+2=4 and 100 x10 Doctrines of mankind
      Bottom line no matter what do you believe in Christ as your personal Savior? Is there anyone else in between Christ and you for your assurance in being saved? If there is, then I would go to God personally and ask to be shown if your ways are in his way of reaching you completely

  14. Ramma permalink

    This is a great party!!…..Interesting that we were lead to watch “Tares Among Wheat” last night. Wow, what an eye opener! Anyway, you know what struck me? It said that in the Counter-Reformation, that the “key” difference was in the way that they interpreted scripture. Wow, we still have that today. One of the technics used to destroy Protestantism, was to re-write the scriptures first , and then to introduce “higher criticism” and “textual criticism”. They could not handle the simple pure belief in Christ as our ALL IN ALL. So they had to mix it all up. They changed the interpretations of he scriptures to fit their plan. Wow, we still have that today. I would rather believe in a Living Savior and trust His guidance that written words any day. He is as, Steve Simms stated, the Good Shepherd, the Great Shepherd. After they started that movement going……..then they placed their people in colleges, seminaries, pastoral positions, etc….and infiltrated the Protestant world. We should ALL check with the Holy Spirit where our understanding is coming from every time that we read something or listen to something. When a person constantly wants to argue or verbally bashes someone over and over, it is not a good sign. Roman 14 ( the whole chapter), is about us differencing in things and basically says if one sees something as sin, then it is sin to him, and that we should do as the Spirit leads us. Not as someone else tries to convince us. I like your question Howard…. Is there anyone else in between Christ and you for your assurance in being saved? That is the bottom line………if their is anything between you and Christ, that includes treasuring the written word so much that you won’t do what the Spirit is telling you! Reformed by the Spirit touched on the fact that the early ecclesia had no written word and they thrived on the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Thanks every one for your thoughts! Blessings!

  15. Debi permalink

    John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

    or

    “In the beginning was the BOOK, and the BOOK was with God, and the BOOK was God”.

    Seriously, which one I should I choose?

    His-story repeats itself (Ecclesiastes 1:9-11)

    9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.

    10 Is there [any] thing whereof it may be said, See, this [is] new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

    11 [There is] no remembrance of former [things]; neither shall there be [any] remembrance of [things] that are to come with [those] that shall come after.

    Today, we are in the “re-run” of what was happening during the first appearance of Jesus in the flesh, and also the Scribes and the Pharisees. About 2,000 years had passed since Moses wrote down all the first things, and God’s chosen people of the time had hundreds of years to “interpret” what they thought the scriptures meant. By the time Jesus showed up to fix everything, it was in such a state of confusion and crapola they couldn’t even recognize the Messiah standing before them. This was the first time that men worshipped their own interpretations of scripture more than the One who gave it to them to start with.

    Same thing now. 2,000 years later, we have “men’s traditions” …or the “leaven of the Pharisees” infiltrating the written words that were supposed to be for our help. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Dogmatic literalists today ignore the fact that the “masses” who followed after Jesus were NOT “given to understand” the parables He spoke, and indeed, “spake He not to them WITHOUT a parable”. But to the disciples, He explained everything.

    Jesus walked among men, being led by “The Father” to say and do all he said and did. He carried no “bible”, authorized no “bible studies” and flatly denounced the religious leadership of His time as “blind leaders of the blind” and worse….”serpents and vipers and hypocrites”. What was good enough for Jesus is good enough for me (Follow me….follow the pattern I set). Just be glad He hasn’t sent me yet into the temples to turn over the merchandising tables of the thieves. Jesus called a spade a spade when dealing with the religious leadership of His time. He dealt more gently with those who had been abused and misled by the ones who thought themselves so knowledgeable. Discern the difference between these.

    Why are these things so hard to grasp? “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind”, and let THE HOLY SPIRIT LEAD AND GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH, just like the written word says. I’ve yet to find any scripture that says “Sound exegesis and Greek hermeneutics are your best friends for understanding and illuminating scripture”.

    Stop worshipping that wooden idol (Bible-Babble-Babel) and stop being Jeff Dunham trying to make it “say” whatever YOU think and want it to say. Especially so when you want it to do nothing more than validate your own paradigm.

    Yes…”wooden idol”….I can prove it.

    What is a bible made from, literally?

    Paper pages bound together and covered by leather (or in some cases “pleather”). Paper is made from

    WOOD.

    Ground up wood pulp. Covered in “dead beast flesh” (leather). Unless the Spirit breathes on the words in it, it is nothing more than a “dead letter” (literally “LETTERS” from Paul and the boys). You should really read about the process of paper-making and see the symbolism in it. Very illuminating and enlightening.

    Check out all the admonitions against worshipping “idols of wood and stone”. Lots to think about.

    Is it useful? yep. It’s an effective tool when empowered by the Holy Spirit.

    Is it inspired? yes, in the original, when first received BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, upon those who put pen to paper (or sheepskin, papyrus, stone, etc.)

    Is it “always” inspired? Not when it is used as a dried-up club to beat people up with (one reason why the officials came with “clubs” to arrest Jesus).

    People want something concrete like exegesis, eisigesis, hermeneutical, homilitical, man-made ideas to set their foundations on so they don’t have to be responsible for actually hearing from the Lord for themselves, and getting His side of the story.

    Are there people who get it wrong, when they say “God told me this” or “God showed me that”? Sure. But it’s because they harbor idols in their heart, and God lets them believe what they want to believe (yeah, that is in the both the new and the old testaments). But if you don’t have a false paradigm you expect God to meet, He will show you the truth. Sometimes it’s a lightning bolt, and sometimes it is dawn breaking gently over the horizon. But I know this one thing.

    in the past 20 years, as honest-hearted people have “come out of her” and the doctrines of men, I’ve watched as people have begun actually seeing and hearing THE SAME THINGS, doctrinally speaking. And it hasn’t been because of some man’s preaching or demonizational teaching they are “sitting under”. It’s a solitary thing where you first think you must be losing your mind, because “Would God really say (do) THAT?” And after a period of time during which you meditate on things, and pray about them, and test them, you find it to be true. Then you stumble upon someone else who exclaims, “I know, right??? He showed me the SAME THING!!”

    Just some random thoughts from the Brook Cherith. Ravens can bring food to sustain you if you have faith to believe that even unclean birds are used by Father for a purpose sometimes. It takes WAY more faith to walk by the Spirit in all things, than it does to play Bible Roulette and hope the wheel doesn’t stop on “And Judas hanged himself” followed by “Go ye and do likewise” when you pray about what to do next.

    True story: When my son Kody was 5 years old, he liked to feed the ducks at a pond near his grandmother’s house. When I was getting them ready to visit her for the day, He asked me “Do you think Granny will take us to feed the ducks today?’

    Before I thought about it, I said this; “If you play your cards right, she might.”

    The kid ran to the shelf where I kept our deck of playing cards, took them out of the bowl, and hollered at his older sister “Hey, Kacey, mom said if we learn how to play cards, Granny will take us to feed the ducks!!”

    Took me TWO HOURS to try and explain to that child that this was NOT at all what I MEANT by what I actually said. Even though there was absolutely ZERO connection between being able to play cards and feeding ducks. In his mind, I said it, and he had no clue about “figures of speech” or “parables”.

    Can you see the connection here? You really should just ask the (original) AUTHOR what He meant by what He said. Even if it seems confusing and makes no sense at first, if you humble yourself and are willing to accept the leading of the still small voice. Listen and Learn, not “read and learn”.

    • Thank you fro that long run of telling at least me about the truth of Father and Son, sister Awesome post to me anyway, and got it. That resonated with me

  16. Chad permalink

    Thanks for the blog Christopher! You did a great job of concisely explaining an important concept. I am in agreement with you, but I also appreciate your refusal to judge others on this. I almost forget how fiercely some people will defend the clergy/laity system, but sadly some of the comments reminded me. Thanks for your willingness to share these truths brother!

    • We are many yet one in Father and Son, as we all are just a growing in the perfect fruit Christ Jesus to love and show Mercy to all, as Christ showed us in letting evil trample upon him. Which the Devil thought he had him. Yet he went to prison with all the others held there. and preached to them while in there. Those that believed rose with him to Heaven in spirit and truth forever. And along the way he stopped for a sec. And took those keys the Devil had. Now the Devil and his co-horts are kicked out of the inner court and hang around the outside trying to stop us from entering his courts with praise and thanksgiving.
      Prince of this world defeated,, judged. John 16

  17. Ramma permalink

    Good stuff Debi and very true! Bless you and all here!

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