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The Standard; Or The Bible And The Spirit Of Christ

November 5, 2014

Greetings,

 The following is something the Spirit inspired me to write several years ago, but I felt it might help in our ongoing conversation concerning being bible or Spirit led……

 I want to start by pointing out that *some* of us who have shared so far here at the BLOG probably really aren’t disagreeing about the root of the matter.  We just differ some in perspective, or the way we have come to understand and explain what we feel God has revealed to us.  And I feel this is just great.  God has offered us all a “table of truth & love” to eat and grow from.  Nice to know that it is always a banquet or buffet; instead of an Ala’ carte burger and fries served up by one clowns opinion (sorry Ronald).  It is however very important that we all are talking about the same Spiritual meat.

 Now more comments:

And so much of this is semantics.

 I too am what some would call a student of the scriptures, but what makes me uneasy about saying we must be a “student” is that it *can* tend to exalt our intellects. And also exclude those who feel they are not smart enough to be a good follower of Christ.  Having humble and open hearts always triumphs over book learned smarts IMHO.

 Some folks say that the bible is, “the only standard of truth which we have”.  And others call it “the final authority”.  The reason this makes me cringe is that it elevates doctrine to the ruler and head over all, and tends to negate and destroy what I feel is every person’s reason for existence: RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD and ONE ANOTHER.

 Having the bible as “the only standard of truth” has not produced the type of fruit God desires in the plethora of institutional/traditional churches that have waved that flag proudly for centuries has it?  Sure the bible is “A” standard of truth, but I just can’t elevate it to “The” standard.  The bible is not God!  And God is THE STANDARD. Sure the bible is one of the tools that God has supplied us with so we can understand the standard (HIM), but I cannot equate the two.

 Here is an interesting take on this:

 We all know that the bible says, that “every matter must be established on the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses.”  And I don’t think that necessarily means like I have heard taught, “Yep, I got my three witnesses.  This scripture, that scripture, and this here other scripture quote. That’s 3 ain’t it?”

 I believe that it could rather suggest a checks and balances method that God offers us so we can avoid gross errors in judgment.

 1 John 5:8 seems clear (at least to me) here. It says that, “There are three witnesses (these three testify) the Spirit, the water, and the Blood.”

 Here we got:

1.  The Holy Spirit and His leading and voice for confirmation and all that entails, and many times The Spirit will lead us to the bible, but not always.

2. The water, which thru my studies proves to be LIFE – but not in the sense of circumstances; but rather in the light of relationship with others who share this new life from God.  Both the testimonies of those living and those saints that have gone home before us, i.e. – mutual accountability and the answered prayers of the saints.  Some call this the hermeneutic of The Body.

And 3. The Blood, Jesus himself and His testimony which is recorded in the bible.  And Jesus is the Word after all.  However, I don’t equate Jesus being the Word as the same as He being the scriptures.  Jesus is much more comprehensive than that.  The bible is not the fourth part of the Godhead.  Jesus sits on the throne, not the Book!  Hope I haven’t confused anyone, but rather given food for thought.

And yes, I know I had to use the scriptures to prove my point ;) And I agree that the bible is part of the standard of truth, but it is joined and supported by much more than itself.  Which to me gives it even more validity and value than if it stood alone.

 One more point then I’ll git out of here.  Folks are right when they say the Spirit is reliable, but we are not.  We can easily be deceived by our own feelings and thoughts.  People have used the Spirit told me so to do some vile things throughout history.

 But the same thing can be said for those who have claimed the bible as their only standard of truth. People have used the bible to enslave and dominate others for centuries.  The KKK use it to promote racism and hatred.  Think of the crusades and the inquisition where many were slaughtered in the name of the WORD.  Women have been told to stay in relationships where they are battered and beaten because they were told the bible says so. The list goes on and on.

 Problem is we are human.  We quite easily are deceived by our own feelings and thoughts about even the bible. Our interpretations of what we read in there can be grossly full of error.

 So I just can’t trust myself with only one standard of truth.

 Unless that standard is Jesus and the many ways HE reveals himself.

 Love and….

 Kirk Out !

 p.s. Does the bible reveal the truth of the Spirit, or the Spirit reveal the truth of the bible?

 And didn’t the Spirit have to reveal to the authors what to write?  It is the same way today.

 I am thankful for confirmation from all the resources our source, The Lord, has provided us.  I long for both the forest and the trees.  What a view, it’s beautiful!

P.s.s. I just want to take a moment here to thank Jesus for His great care and provision.  This coming weekend I am driving to Southwest New York state to spend some time with some great folks who host an organic expression of Christ’s Body in their home.  I thought I was going to have to cancel the trip because the money I had set aside for this journey had to be used for my dog Rocky’s  recent vet bill due to a severe urinary tract infection.  Much to my surprise four different sources stepped forward to provide me with the cash needed for the trip.  Thank you Jesus and thanks to those who gave.  There is nothing quite like receiving such blessing and confirmation from the Lord.

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15 Comments
  1. That was put well, I understand that, Thank you and have a safe trip, there and back

  2. ” Some folks say that the bible is, “the only standard of truth which we have”.
    I guess these people have never heard of “the Spirit of Truth” in which those who are Christ’s dwell. Jesus said, “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.”
    (John 14:16-17 KJ2000)

  3. CatherineS permalink

    Very well said. For so much of my Christian life I was taught that “the Bible” was the only truth I needed, but I knew deep down that teaching didn’t jive with scripture itself. Too many believers are afraid of the possibility of going off the rails by following Christ as He speaks to us through the Spirit of truth. They want strict guidelines to follow as a way to measure how they’re doing and where they stand before God, forgetting that the only reason we can even stand before Him is because of the finished work of Christ, not because we follow “rules” or instruction so well. Besides, I can trust absolutely in Christ’s keeping power and can’t trust at all in my ability to perfectly follow any guidelines. Regarding the fear of falling into error, God never intended for us to just be hearing His Spirit on our own, what He speaks to the corporate body plays a large part in that, and is part of His “safety net” to test the truth of what is being said (often using scripture 🙂 ) and keep us from going off the rails.

    It’s great that the Lord has made a way for you to come this weekend. We’re really looking forward to seeing you!

  4. Excellent comments so far. I just LOVE the corporate speaking of the Body of Christ.

  5. Christopher, I left a comment yesterday or day before. Hasn’t shown up. Maybe it’s still in moderation (?). Other than that site is working on my end.

  6. volkmar1108, Your comment on the post “The Final Authority” was approved right away and it is still there.

  7. Keith Mahay permalink

    The Bible, as a document is very complex; the Scripture, on the other hand, is God breathed which means to me that the Holy Spirit, i.e. Christ, brings life and a revelation of Jesus Christ. Think of a train, both tracks are necessary, the Spirit and the Word. What I intend to express is that Scripture reveals to us the nature of God and His will and plan. That nature is, in some respects, complex much like human nature is complex and yet at the same time ‘simple’ in the sense that getting to know someone is complex and simple at the same time. Ergo, Scripture is not a static document. I believe the New Testament writings reveal this. What this means to me is that God speaks to me through a document and breathes life into me from that document, like no other, an integrated relationship to the divine nature and even more.

    • Thanks for sharing Keith. I agree that scripture the greatest document ever produced, but without the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit it can be just dead letter. I am very thankful to have a bible, but even more thankful to have the Holy Spirit in me.

  8. Paradox welcoming troubles to be set free from them

    Thank you and during this time I welcomed troubles, invited them to join in my Joy over this, and for some reason some of these trouble makers fled, and others stuck around the hear how can you be content while in this cess pool of a world?

    Answer is Jesus, the finished work is finished, done, and I am too busy thanking him for that while in adversity

    WHAT? You welcome troubles? WHAT? I run from them. And I say how you doing with that running, have you escaped them. Answer No.

    Then asked so I am to fight then? Nope, not that either. What then?

    Do not run nor fight it, welcome to any evil, welcome it?

    But I already hate what I am doing and trying real hard not to do what I do not want to do, and I am doing pretty well at fighting the things I do not like, Asking for God’s help to overcome, and I believe God is helping me.

    And I say great, so your goal is to get to perfection as Christ is perfect then, right? Right, first we believe then we set out to be like him.

    And I say great a good attitude, Great Amen. That is a good start, how are you doing at being like him?

    Some days well other days not so well Why?

    What do you think; would it be like if you welcomed the troubles, spoke of them as Thank you for them?

    Would you learn from them by welcoming them? Will troubles always be available here on this earth? What good has troubles done for you or anyone that has any negative thoughts against them? In essence, all this boils down to worry right? So will any worry add any moment to our life’s here right now? Or actually steal from us, our life for that present time we are spending in it.

    So if I praise the Lord for trouble, any and all, and will troubles ever leave? Have not for me, for you has it left?

    Or will they always be hanging around right there at our fingertips to roll us over into anxiety again? And when this happens, how do we immediately feel about this?

    So if you’ve never tried to welcome these things you do not like and start right now, what do you think would happen?

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can speak for me. I remember that very first Day I began to welcome, accept fear of any kind, from anyone and anything, including God.

    By thanking God that by Christ back at the cross that God through Son, Jesus Christ forgave me.

    What a bumpy ride this has been, scary in trying and trying and trying until I was blue in the face, wishing I was dead. Seeking out help from others here in this world, and still confused as in what to do since I accepted I am Forgiven regardless of whether I sinned again or not. It was scary still, because for whatever reason I have not stopped sinning. I have studied the written word over and over again and again. Trying to find God, understand God, having the whole time intending to not sin anymore, bent on it, obsessed with it. I Got to Love my neighbor as myself, As Christ has loved me. Do right to get right. If I do evil I get evil. Fight, fight, fight and continue to fight. Then run, run, run and run Forest run.

    All to no avail, one still sins. And when one does not and thinks he got it licked gets buffeted, knocked down off of their high Horse as Saul was on the road to Damascus, I know this for myself. I do not know this for anyone else, but this is what is true for me, and I find no end.

    So what do I do, I mean we are said to be set free from all this adversity by Christ to Father per the word, the Bible as we all today have access to right?

    If you were to look at a compass, with North, East, South, West, and you were to only pick one of those directions to go. Which one will you pick? Let us use East, how far is east to you? And when you get to that East Location is there more east to go? Will moving in this direction east have an end to it?

    So being in God is there an end to God like there is no end to the direction East, West, North and or South? Since there is always more east, south, west or north to go, is there also more of God to learn? And yet be at your Goal the whole time saved by God from God and God alone? No matter what way you go, up, down, sideways or forward. Who is it that said he got you? Who will not let you go, unless you decide to go? Who is your friend in letting you decide to choose to love or not? Is not what we all want in truth is freedom for all to love each other the same and not fight or hide? This only can start with one person that is Christ the center of all. And like a Domino effect it catches on to the next and the next, in Love and Mercy to all, to plainly shut us up, and just love each other giving each other room to breathe freely.

    God does just love you and that is God’s final answer to all that do want to be a million-are in God. By Christ alone it is done for you. So welcome all in peace and contentment, God already has won the war for you, through the cross of Son it is done for you. But this world has managed to put you back in the middle of it, by getting you, me and anyone that listens to its thoughts of fight or flight (hiding). Never do these types of thoughts ever encourage us in welcoming them, because that is how it is overcome in Christ not fighting it, went to the cross to overcome it and did, proof, he is risen. Being finished for you before any of you reading here were ever born, he did all for you at the cross, to give us peace, right here right now, everlasting continual, if we can last through this new way of thinking, for it will not readily about face for you, depending on how long you’ve been swimming in the fight or hide attitudes of all flesh attitudes that are all around us. All that adversity that you have not faced and not welcomed, It will fight against you, trying to keep you fighting against it or giving up to it and walking away from it. Either way, doing this either way, running or standing up, that we all are taught to do fight or hide (Flight) that we have no lasting peace from hiding and or fighting, just temporary. This flight or hide syndrome we all have been taught and born naturally to have, eventually wears one down, to hide well our fears, well. That we all have seen others that have exploded over this type of situation, have we not? By all this fighting and hiding we have today a world full of Chronic diseases, because of trying to fight or flight (hide) our troubles from all those around us as we go here in this world, putting on our masks as we head out the door on our way to?

    So again welcome all to the Table, feed all, enemy or not, enemy is to one’s perception an enemy and to another it is not the same view is it? And God plainly said God loves us all, and that not one seeks God, actually God seeks us, Hope and pray we listen and believe to receive what I am saying about entering into the Kingdom of God right now in Spirit and truth, As John reveals to us in Revelations 1-4?

    This renewing of one’s mindset does not happen overnight, but it is there ready and available from God to you personally anyone reading this here, and will go the distance no matter what troubles come upon them and not curse God as Job did not, that is written there for our edification to stand and stand in to trust God all the way through.

    God will reveal it to you if you are sincere to know God, period, thank you, I pray you are serious to know the creator of all. For God knowing you are serious will reveal this to you. I know now, because of what I went through in the last two years, up and down, like a roller coaster, happy, sad, happy ad again, over and over. Now this last adventure, I lost a Body part, cut off, wiped out, gone, never to return, not even prosthetic’s can bring this back, ever

    Here goes, welcoming my worst fear right now, Thank you I got my penis removed, not by my choice, not by God’s choice, not for punishment, not for anything as for a reason I messed up or not. The rain rains on everyone good or bad, and I am not claiming to be good or bad. But to come to acceptance of this, and live above my circumstance’s, as according to Medical Doctors I am a rare case to even live through the surgery as well as over a year after it. And much less able to walk on my own now let alone the Psychological effects afterwards that I have chosen to learn from and learning I am to welcome trouble when it knocks on my door, as it has many times before. To say to God I was ready to go whenever It is decided by God for me to go, understanding this, The enemy can kill my flesh, harm my flesh as it did, but it can’t kill anyone’s Soul. Only god himself can do that alone, So I gave my life to him not to live or die, to whatever way it turned out, and it turned out this way, and I was really ready to go home, where I know is real by Spirit, not by my fleshly manhood I had.

    Look up the disease I had if wish to check it out the survival odds. Foreigners Gang-Greene

    Thank you for reading and listening, this was very freeing for me to admit to, letting the cat out of the bag so to speak

    Homwardbound

    • Janet Fowler permalink

      Howard I just tried to post a comment to let you know I appreciated your thoughts. I agree and found it refreshingly honest. I lost the long version but still want to encourage you. Your thought about welcoming trouble were right on. In this world we will have trouble, and our battle with sin never ends, but his mercy is bigger!

      Your thoughts remind me of Ecclesiastes, all is meaningless, and it all comes down to Loving our Father God and loving our neighbor.

      Blessings to you Howard, and peace! You have a new body awaiting, but obviously you are still needed here.

      Thank you, brother

  9. Praying for you Howard!

  10. Ramma permalink

    Prayers for all of our brothers and sisters. We sure don’t know what others go through on a daily basis. All I know is to let your faith increase because of His presence in your life day in and day out. If we are finding strife in our day, put ourselves in check as to where our thinking is. Strife is a sign of struggling against something, usually a truth that we don’t want to recognize or acknowledge. Keep focused on Christ and Christ alone. There is no other. Blessings

    • You are 100% correct on this Ramma. we all are learning from our troubles here on earth, if we willing and I see we all are that

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