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Going Toe To Toe For The Gospel

October 20, 2014

Greetings,

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.  Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”  Matthew 5: 11-12

Three people contacted me last night and two of them shared those exact verses with me, and the other person encouraged me in a very similar manner.  All these friends knew was that the Holy Spirit prompted them to call and encourage me.  They had no idea about my current circumstances.  All I can say is that according to those verses I am in the process of being very greatly blessed the last few days.

In the last 48 hours in an online forum about house churches Two legalistic men have attacked and denounced me falling just short of calling me a false teacher.  All this is because we have different understanding about some key issues in the Church.  They say I have a low view of scripture because I refuse to elevate the written word to a place equal to or greater than Jesus Himself, because I feel that is idolatry.  They say scripture is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice.  While I believe that only Jesus is THE final authority in all matters PERIOD.  They also vehemently disagree with me when I say the Church needs to be Spirit led rather than bible led.  We also part ways concerning the role of hierarchy in the Church.  They believe in and support the need for a human hierarchy to rule over the Church based on gifting, gender and biblical knowledge.  While I say we are all equal sibling peers in the Church under only the rule of Christ alone.  They see the need for human rulers with great authority, but I see the need for true servants with equal authority in Christ.  Finally I support the full equality of women in the Body of Christ in regards to all giftings and practice and they promote patriarchy where only males can ever lead and teach.  Yes, there are very dysfunctional house churches out there that differ very little from most traditional “churches”.

Some would say to me that an online forum is no big deal and that I should just leave to avoid further conflict with these two men.  Problem is that I have been called and equipped by Jesus to contend for the faith in situations just like this.  I also am not the only one speaking for the ways of Christ rather than men there.  Jim W. a dear brother in Christ had stood back to back with me fending off the assault of the enemy via these two very persuasive, highly intellectual men.  Jim and I feel that we need to take a stand against the very traditional/Institutional teaching of these two men who tend to dominate the discussion at this forum of more than 550 people.  There simply needs to be light in the midst of this darkness.  So that those who visit there sincerely seeking a better more relational way to Church can find it there in this location.  It would be Christlike to just present differing views and opinions concerning difficult beliefs and doctrines there, but these two men continually go for the jugular and place their feet on the neck of those with differing views.  Demanding compliance to their understanding of such doctrines and scripture.  It would be great if someone would step in to help moderate the discussions there, but these guys help administrate this forum so there is not much help or balance in sight.  Brothers in Christ should be able to work through differences such as ours, but they are all but saying Jim and I aren’t even real Christians because of our views and lack of having the bible as our only standard.  However, the deeper I go in Christ it seems that I become too radical for even the radicals.

Me?  I accept anyone who loves Jesus and calls Him their Lord.  If they follow Him in the big picture I am certain that any other details can be worked out over time and fellowship.  If we agree on who Jesus is we should be able to walk together and figure the rest out in His good time.  God hates divisions and to divide over doctrine before giving our sibling relationships a real chance to grow and mature is a HUGE mistake in my humble opinion.

The traditional “church” has many doctrinal obstacles in the way of true fellowship and life in Him.  The same should not be true in totally open and free, organic, Spirit led and relational fellowship.  Jesus never made me take a test about doctrine or scriptural knowledge in order to enter into a relationship with Him.  He called me His friend and then began to teach me via the Spirit all I needed to know about life in Him and the Church.  Cutting people off over doctrinal disputes is like aborting a baby before it grows to full term and is born.  It takes time with Him to learn and grow into the disciples He intends us to be, but if we walk with Him and one another long enough we will all eventually grow up to where we can be fully birthed into His amazing truth and love.  I don’t consider myself to be fully there yet, but I hope to be in the future.  I would surely appreciate your prayers for Jim and I.  Fighting the doctrine police is surely a difficult adventure.  Jesus said we should be defined by our love for one another and not by our doctrines.  I say a tree is known by its fruit.

Love and ……

Kirk Out !

P.s.  Today Claudia’s family asked me to help them put together a memorial service for her.  They continue to ask sincere questions about Jesus.  Several are very close to inviting Him into their lives. Please pray for them and the memorial?

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12 Comments
  1. People say law of the land is final authority in the courts. But it comes down to how the lawyers and judge interpret it. You don’t need a special building to have a church. A church is made up of the people who come together to worship.

  2. Will be praying. God has opened up such wonderful opportunities for you. You are specially made for the work he is calling you to.

  3. Because of the nature of that forum, I am quite sure there are plenty of people there who come just to hear the perspectives of the legalists. I don’t expect to change their minds at all. But two things are very important: 1. There are plenty of people in that forum who are there simply because they are interested in House Church. It is vital to show them that, no matter how authoritative and in charge the legalists sound, their legalism can be laughed off and real freedom maintained. 2. That forum us a closed group, and there are many, many friends of member who can see what is written there. Those people must be protected from the draw of the authority-legalism, and the best way to do that is to call them out, in public, as Jesus did.

    Thanks for standing up to them, Chris, and for living out your freedom.

    • Thank you for having my back Jim W and for standing up to them and living out your freedom.

  4. A message from Facebook from: Genevieve Carter……Awesome article and i hâve an idea

    Can you email these two legalistic men your article from today?

    Very sorry but wow you articulate so very well

    Father I lift up Jim and Kirk

    And we ask You our Heavenly Father for your supernatural intervention in this matter

    And a your divine favor poured out on Jim and Kirk and that the two legalistic men will be convicted of their pride and wmanipulation witchcraft behavior and thinking in Jesus’ name we pray. Amen. Thank you Holy Trinity.

  5. Janet permalink

    Great job Jim and Christopher! I agree there are times we need to stand up and say what needs to be said. Jesus didn’t hold back calling a viper a viper, or whitewashed tombs. Now we are not Jesus and we have to be careful how we confront, but you are always careful and humble from what I can tell.

    May our Father bless your efforts and open the eyes and ears of those hearing!
    Love you!

  6. You are in a battle, praying as you are called you hear to say what Father wants said to say or not say. That is not an easy one, to decipher. For I know you know truth from error. Been here long enough to discern that.
    My concern for you Brother is our Old Man gets in the way. I have fought many a battle in this same arena over the legalistic people, that will only listen to what they are convinced is true to them.
    As I believe to be free as well, and we are not under a yoke of bondage.
    Now being free, is wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! awesome.
    I got in these wars on line, and when it got the best of me, me getting upset over not being heard and them the same back to me. Me not hearing them from their view, was trying to end up in a flesh war of I am right and you are wrong attitude, that became such a Doctrine to me, I was losing my first love, being in battle over I had to get this across to them.

    well anyway Brother please I pray you be careful here in this and it does not swallow you up. We all are called by Father to believe Father through Son’s finished work at the cross for us all. Not all do believe. And am glad you do see truth from error. I see the same, I just don’t go kicking them to the curb anymore. I just simply say I do not agree, give my view and leave it at that. Also listen to theirs and take it under advisement, and them seeing this or hearing this from me. I end up with at the end of the day, all that is said I give to Father to separate any errors from truth. I trust Father to do this separating and have changed my mind on many ordeals, in this separating of.

    I have learned this leaves me with to be wise as a serpent to all that is around me. Knowing that the battle that is spiritual, from the Spirit of error is at hand as Paul talks of in Romans 7. So once aware, God has been teaching not to attack in flesh attitudes, as I am right, you are wrong ones.
    Instead to just be humble and wait when it is time to talk, still learning the difference to this, when and when not.
    So I hear another in what I see as false, now I say interesting, but see this do not make a Doctrine out of anything other than Christ died for us all equally. So this way I can stay harmless as a dove and trust Father in Matt. 10:16-20, as this is for all that believe Father and Son. And getting the me, old me out of the way, I found I can’t
    So now I die daily t me with Christ back at the cross, as if I died with him there, along with that thief. Then as I am growing Father is showing me the new life in Father, by the resurrected Christ. How to walk in humility, as Christ stayed in humility the whole time here on earth. Did nothing unless Father said to. Gave all his works to Father, not self ever.
    This is what I am in process of learning, I want to go out and battle, but I see what flesh does in craftiness to fight, and me think it is Spiritual, when it is not.
    Praying for us Brother to see his strength as perfect in my need for him always. That his grace is sufficient for me and just love all, as I know you do love these others that are battling you.

    Just please be careful, as I know, we are called when we see another in troubles, we who are Spiritual are to go over and help our other brothers. Yet we are to count the cost, and consider whether or not it will pull us into the web, of flesh fighting flesh.

    For the war is:
    Flesh persecuting flesh, and is actually persecuting God’s amazing grace to all. As I know you see this.
    Galatians 4:29New International Version (NIV)

    29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

    So continue on in the calling you are called to, being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove
    Thank you fro listening to my concern in Spirit for you to stand in the Faith as you want to

  7. Thank you Howard for the warning and the encouragement.

    • welcome, Brother, I did it in person for many a times, and it was always taken wrong by them. so I had to find another way in for those that are truly seeking. Went as far as taking them alone in away, and wow, been well you know. I am not running, now learning when to hold them and when to fold them. Being taught , how to communicate better and better, as I just did with you. I am so elated over it. I have no bad or selfish intentions as I see you don’t either as we both do not know each other.
      Thank you, and I bet we both begin to grow deeper in all this, and I am loving every minute of that

  8. "BK" permalink

    A wise brother once said we won’t have to disfellowship anyone (or, in our day, leave a forum) because as we make a stand in love they will do the disfellowshipping if it comes to that. Hang in there in love and speak as the Spirit leads. It is for you, for them, and for those who stand by listening. Praying for you much. Know that it seems to be something stirring in the spiritual realm…I have been under fire of late on the same thing (the bible elevated higher than it should be). Certainly not as hot as yours, I’m sure, but the same spirit. And so we walk on…hopefully with those who don’t see the same until unity can be attained by the Spirit. Much love to you, bro, “BK”

  9. "BK" permalink

    Oh! And also praying for Claudia’s family as the Lord uses you to introduce Himself to them.
    Love, “BK”

  10. For if God in spirit and truth who came to live in us, those that believe God, does not get us to see the love of God by the scripture, God will get us to see by our experiences here in this world on earth that we do not belong to, being Citizens of Heaven, and loving all at the same time, trusting god to give us the right words when needed to bringing in the sheep to the old of Christ.
    Thanks you all fro walking in Spirit and truth of Father, and being open to see when we error, trusting God to teach us how to walk by Faith as Christ showed us how. For he did nothing or said nothing without Father’s lead. And he sent us the same Spirit of God to lead us as well. Accomplished by his resurrection for us t receive this same Spirit of God that led him
    Thank you all

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