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Here Comes That Heretic Word Again

March 24, 2014

Greetings,

Well, I am being accused of heresy again.  For the third time this decade the kind of things I post here on this blog have been brought into severe question.  I have been rebuked and told I need to stop “Bible bashing” and “leading people astray.”   Plus I allowed “that woman” (Debi Buck) to post “gross error” on my site.   Apparently I also have a “low” view of scripture and those who follow this blog are my “prey.”.  The main accusation is that I am “trying to encourage the ways of Christopher Kirk and not the Word of God” and I am the kind of person the book of Jude warns people about.  Read Jude if you get the chance?  Pretty heavy stuff in that little epistle.  This is almost exactly the same rebuke I have gotten twice before with very similar words and scripture usage.  So my attention is peaked.  Is this the standard rebuke template of the traditional/institutional “church”?

I will admit that my view of scripture is not traditional or mainstream, but I think I have a very high view of scripture.  I just refuse to give it the same place as God Himself.  Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are at the top of my list on who to follow and I refuse to give the bible the position of the 4th part of what many call The Godhead.  After all it is The Spirit Who leads us into “all truth” and without The Spirit’s illumination of The Word it is all just dead letter.  In fact I read and use the bible all the time, but I won’t bow to it and give it the place of being a God in my life.  I encourage people to be Spirit led and not bible led, this is true, but I also admit that much of the time what the Spirit is leading us to do is read and follow the bible; especially the words of Jesus Himself.

As far as leading people “astray” and those very same people being my “prey” goes…. I just don’t see it and neither do the people who I directly relate to, fellowship with, and who I am accountable to.  If anything I encourage people to break free from human leadership, including my own, and to be led by The Spirit in all things.  I don’t want people to follow me.  I want them to follow Jesus.  I don’t have any minions and no one has given me a red cent.  However, in following Jesus we will also begin to recognize that many of the teachings of traditional religion are not all that biblical and that we often times need to UNLEARN what we have been taught in order to truly follow HIM.  Taking into full account that human tradition nullifies The Word of God.  I have also read that UNLEARNING takes four times the work of learning in the first place.

I am not going to dig my heels in and defend myself concerning this matter beyond what little I have written here today.  I encourage everyone to QUESTION EVERYTHING, including every single thing I share here in my blog.  Some of you have questioned some of my posts in the comments section of these blogs and I appreciate being called to account.  In fact I love accountability.  So please feel free to interact, discuss and question anything I may say here in blogville or anywhere else.

So what do you think?  Am I a heretic?  Have I said anything I need to recant?  Do you know of any sin that I need to repent for?  Like I said, I know I color outside of the lines of traditional religion, but have I gone too far?  Do the warnings in the book of Jude currently apply to me?  All these things are up for discussion ALL of the time.  I really don’t mind being labeled a heretic by mere men, as long as Jesus does not view me in that manner.

Love and….

Kirk Out !

p.s.  Funny thing is that my accuser called me on the phone to deliver his message and he refused to give me his name.  All he said was that he was “a messenger of God”.  I tried to redial his number, but it was “restricted”.  So whoever you are, please be bold, upfront, and identify yourself if you want to be taken even remotely seriously.  People who speak for God don’t usually hide when they deliver their message.  Step up and share in public if your message is truly from God?  

 

 

 
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32 Comments
  1. Debi Buck permalink

    “that woman”….I am so laughing…I’ve been called a lot of things, but that one’s a first. Sounds like a hussy, doesn’t she?

    To the random, “anonymous” (male) caller….why don’t you ask your momma to open her purse and give you your balls back? Who calls someone and rebukes them from the shadows, not identifying themselves, but declaring themselves a “messenger of God”?? No “messengers of God” that I know of. Even Elijah, when he was afraid of Jezebel, had the cajones to stand before her FIRST and give his “message” before he ran off to hide from her…you should bring yours with you before you call and harass Chris again. It’s the manly thing to do, and if God IS “for you”…whom shall you fear? Me? Little ole me?

    (I know…some of you will take exception to my strong and blunt statement regarding the purse and genitalia. But if you have read the bible, God Himself had some people write some pretty explicit stuff in regards to sex, so I had a Good Teacher. (Ezekiel 23:19:21).

    It pretty much sounds like you don’t have just an issue with Chris, but with me too. 256-333-2520, call me anytime, dude, we’ll discuss whatever you wish. or you can email me at:

    proverbs20five2@gmail.com

    • Debi, you are bold Sister, bold indeed and i see this as never meant to condemn, rather for anyone that is asleep to wake up as Christ woke up his disciples when they fell asleep in the garden, saying this “the Spirit (dead Spirit at this time, before the resurrection of Christ) is willing, but the flesh is weak.
      today after the ascension, and Pentecost has happened, how are we to be led? By the Spirit of God or self as was in the First testament, by many with dead Spirits, not having Faith as many of the first Testament Saints had and have, like Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Isaac and many many more, while the others went away from trust and tried to be righteous on their own and yet claimed God as their leader
      There is a fine line and we know them by their love that permeates through out their whole body by belief in the resurrected Christ. Moving on past the death after one is comformable to Chirst’s death and finalizes this:
      Whether I sin or not is not the issue, why? Because by Son I am forgiven 100% of the time, ready to start another harry tick (heretic issue) this one past tense forgiven it is finished is a big one.

      I have not asked for forgiveness for many a year now, knowing I am forgiven past tense back at the cross by Christ’s death alone
      I do confess my sin(s) though, but not for forgiveness, that part is done, final. So I confess to be taught by Father how to walk in dependence on Father as Christ did this very same thing, yet perfectly. How and why? Because he showed us to be dependent on Father 100% of the time. Not an easy task to learn to rest from pour own works is it?

      Anyway I have found nowhere in the word, anywhere to say to get any more forgiveness after one receives the forgiveness at the cross of Christ, where the sin of the world has been taken out of the way of Father for us to get new life in Spirit and truth.
      Nowhere after the death of Christ is it written to have ongoing forgiveness, not even 1 John 1:9, no where there or after saying to recieve the forgiveness does it say to do it all over again and again if we sin
      Rather:
      1 John 2:1-3

      Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
      And what are his commandments? To love as he has loved you
      How many sins did he die for? How many are let for you, me and anyone else?
      He either died for all or he is a liar and not a Merciful God

      It is finished as he said in John 19:30
      Sorry to go on and on
      Join me on Christianchat.com if led to, my avatar is homwardbound there also all in love to you Sister, keep on keeping on, trusting God the Father of Christ our leader into truth all truth that sets us free to be in love thanks to him showing us his love first

  2. Dear Chris,
    I am sorry for the cowardly accusations you received. Jesus is no coward, He says what He says in the open.
    There are fewer of those religious types around these days, so many people are getting free from religious bondage, who knows, the real Good News may indeed cover the earth.

  3. fbctech permalink

    It amazes me just how much we have become so dependent on the Bible, when nowhere in the Bible will you find a call to dependence on it; only on Christ. So much of Christianity has become about redefining and appying “truth” according to how we interpret it. Heretic is a word thas has had additional meaning applied to it and has become the go to word to try to force people back in line when they dare step out of the established system and thought. “Heretic” is not necessarily a bad word. Jesus was considerd a heretic, too and based on the dictionary definition, I would agree. However, heretic does not mean incorrect doctrines or beliefs. It simply means non-compliance with the system. Is that bad? Are you a heretic, then? You can judge for yourself. It’s clear to me, though, that the people who throw that word around have a mixed up understanding of the word and have come to read into it a tone of holy condemnation for those who don’t conform. This is a complete misuse of the word by people who clearly don’t know what it really means. Judging by the definition of the word, I’m ok with being a heretic. You won’t find a place in the Bible where God suggests that we are to conform for the sake of conformity. “As much as it is up to you; live at peace with one another.” Living at peace doesn’t mean conforming and it doesn’t mean agreeing. It just means don’t go to war over it. In love, engage each others differing opinions and encourage each other in Christ, seeking Him as our teacher and guide.

    Love you brother!

  4. Chris, you Heretic (Harry tick), you bit awfully hard and stirred up the bees (the flesh) in mankind set in his ways, wanting the lead, not the freedom. Ever since Christ’s death in the flesh on the cross, man has looked at this and said there is a spot now vacant for me to take the place of the Christ, not seeing or preaching the resurrected Christ, preaching the dead Christ for you, you and you, never moving on into the resurrection of Christ, where new life for us is at, right here and now today in the Spirit of God.the Father.
    And today Father can only truthfully be worshiped this way in Spirit and truth only. So man has made it flesh worship and what man is doing as if man is good, and only Father is.
    We are invited through Christ’s death, in and unto his resurrection to take part of Father in new life in Spirit to Father
    It seems to me everyone I have talked to: know what Christ’s death brought, and few have ever answered what his resurrected life has brought

    So putting it whole, what did his (Christ’s) death do for you? said here to all reading this
    Then what did or does his resurrected life do? If he did not rise, then we are still in our sins an d have not been set free. So if anyone here is in bondage then their might be error in your truth. For Christ has said it is the truth that sets one free, and if Christ (not the bible, said in the bible) sets one free then you will be free indeed.
    Pleas no more half-shammed Gospel, where we do not look into the resurrection of Christ and what that means for us right now, here today

    I reckon me dead to sin by Christ at the cross every day (and that does not mean I don’t ever sin)
    And by being dead to self, co-crucified with Christ I am know seeing the new life given to me by God the Father of Christ is now being my Father also. One with Father, thanks to Son being the propitiation for all sin ever committed and for the whole world as well
    Love you all in God’s perfect way of Mercy to all, seek that out, and please be humble

    • Ramma permalink

      Praise the Lord for all you (harry-ticks)! It’s amazing that”churches” supposedly teach a salvation message and a one on one relationship with Jesus…..but…..when you teach it out here. …you are labeled a “heretic” etc. Walk on and keep your eyes on HIM.

  5. One thing that I struggle with about this caller is the fact that he/she wants to remain anonymous. For if we deny God in front of others He will deny us in front of His Father. Remaining anonymous is the same thing. You must stand for your beliefs or they do not count. A statement that I have heard is true “So you have enemies? Good, then you stood for something you believe in”. I’m sure there will be things that any one if us will say that another will disagree and that’s fine. We are human after all. We are not wired robots, that’s why Heaven will be so great when we each meet the other there. I grew up in a traditional church, my grandfather was the minister. I truly loved my church and the family of members. However the church today is far from the church of yesterday. Greed, envy, serving other gods (money), etc has wiggled it’s way in and is destroying it. If you truly feel God had lead you to another path then that’s between you and Him but do not hide behind a cloak. May God bless each of you.

  6. “Heresy” is formally a teaching or practice that deviates from the essentials of the faith. The essentials of the faith are preserved for us from the early church in the form of creeds. None of the early creeds mentions a particular doctrine about the Bible that is an essential element of the faith; so no opinion regarding the Bible can formally be heresy.

    Moreover, when the apostles discuss heretics, they are more often discussing people whose conduct is unsuitable for a disciple of Jesus, the Christ. Paul, for example, in his first letter to Timothy, repeatedly associates bad teaching with a conscience that is not clear (see I Timothy 1:5-7, 1:18-20, 3:8-9, 4:1-2.) So heresy is not just a wrong opinion; it’s deviation from the faith due to defective conduct and character.

    Peter does say some disparaging things about those who “twist the scriptures to their own destruction,” (II Peter 3:16) but does not call them heretics or damned; he calls them “untaught and unstable.” “Destruction” in this instance probably does not refer to hell, but to the damage one causes oneself when one disobeys sound instruction.

    In any case, I haven’t seen any instance of Chris distorting the scriptures, behaving in an unstable manner, or denying some core element of the faith. Furthermore, I have no evidence that his conduct among the saints is lacking in any way, nor that his conscience is not clear. If there were any question of this, we should consult the fellowship of believers where he lives.

    Or we could ask Chris, himself. Any conscience issues, Chris? No? Then don’t sweat it. You’re not a heretic. And if you do have conscience issues, the sooner you acknowledge them and clear your mind, the better.

  7. Standing tall as a heretic with you, Chris. 🙂 Well, as tall as my 5′ 1″ height can be. LOL!

  8. "BK" permalink

    Well, Chris, I do know the scripture tells us to leap for joy when we are accused falsely. I have been called everything from a whore (including ‘that woman’ … grin) to blue eyed devil. We’re in good company because as you know Jesus, Paul, Stephen and many unnamed saints not only were called names but endured physical torture & death so we have a ways to go yet. Once, years ago, someone called and literally ranted at me for over two hours calling me all sorts of things and accusing me. Then she requested a restraining order on me! When I went to court she ranted on and on to the judge. I jotted each accusation as she said them (couldn’t call me all those names in court) and addressed each one calmly….including that it wasn’t ME who called her, she called me; her phone bill should bear that out. Then I asked if she had a restraining order on me, did that mean she couldn’t contact me either? He said, “Yes.” So I said, “Then Your Honor, PLEASE restrain me!” He threw it out of court altogether and she was so mad she left the courtroom literally screaming. Grin. That’s one of the funny memories. There’s plenty of painful ones where it was people close to me disfellowshipping, rebuking, etc. Some have reconciled over time, some not. But don’t ever lose sight that Jesus said not to rejoice because the spirits are subject to us, but because our names are written in heaven. And, when someone calls to rant, especially if they won’t give their name, unless the Lord tells you to listen, just tell them “I’m haning up now” and do it. Be encouraged. It is fruit that counts and the more years that go by, the more people having a relation with Christ like never before will mature into beautiful, visible fruit. And yeah, Deb, I do admit I respect your stand but I do think you overdo the sex stuff. It comes off like a bit of personal muscle flexing. 🙂 Love you, “BK”

    • Debi Buck permalink

      Yeah, you’re right, BK…I told Chris this morning that after some further thought, not the best idea I’ve ever had…so….my apologies everyone.

  9. "BK" permalink

    Deb, I love your spirit. Not cuz you say I’m right, but your spirit. I know you know that but I don’t think I told you so lately! “BK”

    • Debi, BK and Chris, my long time friends. Even when you are coarse, I hear my Lord in you coming trough. I love you all.
      Michael

    • Skylla Moon permalink

      Now THIS is fellowship. All of this very encouraging, healing even. I agree w BK abt the personal muscle flexing & Debs response is perfect. Christ is permeating this blog even with all us harry and harriet ticks. 😉

  10. The institution’s reps are sometimes sent to cry “heresy”. That’s not unusual nor unexpected. It’s in keeping with the Catholic & Protestant way — have they not done the same to themselves and to one another for centuries still running?

    The real question is whether you are bringing about a division of schism. And to that, we can safely say that you appear to have built a little bit of a small following here, Chris, though you may have not intended to acquire any followers. It is very difficult to gather followers living in a “Twitter world” where the idea of us following only Jesus Christ is thought to be stupid.

    Another concern, and the one most often voiced to me, is related to the connection between “PTSD” and obsessive/demon impuses. After hearing from & about your travels for years, Chris, the influence of other spiritual forces (and not “heresy”) in you remains behind 98% of the cautions communicated to me regarding Christopher Kirk: that the Spirit Christ is not yet in full & reliable control of you 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.

    • Debi Buck permalink

      With the fact in mind that I don’t know Marshall ( and after some communication with Chris, it is obvious he doesn’t know you, either), my first take-away from your post is that you believe Chris is somehow building a following after himself, and not Jesus.

      Having known Chris for many years, I can be assured that if there is anything of the sort happening, he is not aware of it, and had NO intention of that happening. Chris is one of the few people I know that loathes that kind of man-worship. If anyone has begun to sit at the feet of Chris, and not Christ, I’m relatively certain he would be the first to squash that like a bug. And that would be on the would-be followers, not on him. Chris doesn’t operate that way. I personally think his view would be that the only thing worse than people idolizing “A” man, would be someone idolizing HIM personally. I don’t see it…and most of us on the blog who do happen to agree with him have known him and what he stands for, for years. We’d blast him to smithereens if we had any inkling that he harbored such a thing in his heart. Ask him….I’ve called him out before, just as he has with me.

      Second, most people who have been instructed by the demon-nominations of the standard church might also share your view that Chris’s issues with PTSD would automatically assume such things to be the works of the demonic realm. I don’t necessarily share that view. For you to make that kind of judgment without knowing him would put you in the position of being a world class prophet. I think the more likely scenario is that you have simply surmised some things from things he has said and come up with an explanation that fits your paradigm.

      Finally, NONE OF US have reached the point where the spirit of Christ has fully and completely permeated us and controls us 24/7 as you would seem to prefer. When I say none of us….I include YOU in that number. All of us are a work in varying stages of progress. God doesn’t call only those who have been fully qualified…He qualifies the called, and lets us do apprentice type work at His pleasure while we learn from both our mistakes and our successes. My opinion is that you would benefit from an exhortation to stop judging others with a measuring stick you built yourself, and go have a long session with the man in the mirror and his Lord prior to your next post. That is all.

      • thank you for your reply, Debi. It takes a lot of work NOT to build a following today (sorry about my typo earlier).

        I sometimes hear from people who “don’t know me” after having communicated or corresponded with me. Time seems to bleach memories?

        Traveling among the ekklesias, my interest remains with the glory and work of God. I have not presented my own opinion here.

        Do we need be fully “qualified” in Christ? Yes, we do. [Colosians 1:12] No excuses, and no “I’m not perfect yet” religious philosophy. Christ is able to make us complete in Him, if only we will trust Him into it. His is faith-trust that includes letting go of the various things we’ve used to cope or survive on our own.

        “…with fear and-also trembling be [carrying] your own salvation to/into effect”
        [Philippians 2:12]

        As there is today something present that robs Christopher (or any brother/sister) from peace, we will continue to pray for release & advance. It remains vital that we depend upon our Father in heaven for all that we will receive and do. Jesus paid such a great price to have us back fully & wholy His. Nothing we lack in Him.

        again, the accusations of “heresy” aren’t so much about Chris or anyone in particuliar. There’s a great struggle underway in the present times. Against reports of Baptists in India threatening Christ-followers there with harm to themselves and their families, today’s struggle in the USA yet seems rather mild. Let us be bearing up as soldiers in the faith.

      • Do we need be fully “qualified” in Christ? Yes, we do. [Colosians 1:12] No excuses, and no “I’m not perfect yet” religious philosophy. Christ is able to make us complete in Him, if only we will trust Him into it.

        If there is demonic doctrine in this mix, it’s this. Marshall, repent. Right now. Get down on your knees and ask God to liberate you–or stop pretending to teach. I am not kidding.

        Fully qualified does not mean that Jesus’ work is complete. It’s entirely possible that Jesus will be working to perfect us eternally; but what is certain is that no human being is complete during this life. Every servant of the living God is, himself or herself, a wounded healer and an recovering sinner. Anybody who claims otherwise cannot be trusted.

        When James warns believers that few should become teachers in James 3:1-2, it comes with the express declaration that it’s because everybody has imperfections, and that the teacher’s imperfections will be judged more harshly. Look at what he says:

        Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many ways.

        That is what the Apostles taught–unlike that twisted MISQUOTE that you provided, trying to make us think that what qualifies us to share in the inheritance with the saints is some sort of perfection aside from Jesus’ sacrifice. Your misreading of Colossians 1:12 demonstrates that it is YOU who are incompetent to teach, and should be silent.

        The evil one has managed to keep the mass of believers completely inactive by convincing them all, “You’re not qualified to minister; you have to leave that for those who are PERFECT.” He points to some imperfection and condemns: “You may not speak the truth in Christ until you conquer THAT.”

        It’s garbage. Most converts are made by believers who have been believers less than a year. And Chris, who has been a solid believer for many decades, is completely qualified to teach in the Body of Christ, having demonstrated his authenticity by many years of faithful service.

        Let me guess: you’ve appointed yourself sufficient to correct the Body of Christ, and have no authorization apart from what the Lord has told you directly, right? Yeah, yeah. Go spew your misdirection at somebody else. Nobody here is buying.

      • Hi Phil, I remember you from HCDL (2006).

        I’ve made a note of your complaint here.
        not selling anything.
        Thanks be to God, the Truth in Christ is not left up to me or you. 🙂

  11. "BK" permalink

    Wow, am I ever in the dark on figuring out what you are saying, Marshall. I have no problem if you are disagreeing with Chris (and I’m sure he doesn’t either); but I’m not quite sure what you are saying (honestly). Let’s start with Col 1:12 “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:” I couldn’t see where youour comment that follows “No excuses, and no “I’m not perfect yet” religious philosophy. Christ is able to make us complete in Him, if only we will trust Him into it” had anything to do with that verse. Also, you are saying Chris is influenced by adverse spirits; or has been delivered from them and so speaks. These are honest questions so if you wouldn’t mind kind of giving it another go ’round for my sake I would appreciate it. I’d like to consider the things you are saying. Thank you for your patience, “BK”

  12. BK, from Colossians 1:12, “made us meet” [KJV, older English] or “has qualified you/us” [NIV/NASB], and reading further on into Colossians 2:9-10, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity/God lives in bodily form, and you have been given [this] fullness in Christ who is the head over every power and authority.”

    are we at observing Christians & Christianity instead of anticipating & watching for what Jesus describes, such as, “therefore you be perfect/mature even as your Father in heaven is perfect/mature”? [Matthew 5:48] Let’s be walking in Him.

    • "BK" permalink

      Thanks, Marshall. I like the verses in any of the translations you have used. I really don’t see the ‘No excuses!….’ but rather, much hope, just as in the ‘be perfect’ one in Matthew. In Him I AM complete (often translated perfect) and I am so thankful for that. I don’t see it as an ultimatum of ‘no excuses’ but such a promise that in Him, His anointing, is where I have found the completeness I need; and His fulness that lives in ‘bodily’ form is wonderful too because it speaks of the completeness when His Body comes together and His Spirit flows among them. I think we have misconstrued this to mean His fulness in one Being, Jesus. It follows more with Paul’s writings to see he is speaking of the completeness found when each member of the Body of Christ is having the life blood i.e. Spirit of the body flowing freely. Just as I feel the Lord has shown it to me, “BK”

      • The work is finished:

        John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “Itisfinished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

    • If one be dead to self daily, then I bet one will be walking in Christ by Faith, led by Father just as Christ showed us on earth, and then after sent us the comforter to teach us and tell us all things, we are to listen and learn and know, just as Saul who became Paul you think?

  13. Colossians 1:21-23

    New International Version (NIV)

    21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

    Faith, stand in it, we are by it completed, that is the gospel

  14. The work is finished:

    John 19:30
    When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “Itisfinished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

    • So, you’re perfect, and so am I?

      I’m really sorry, I know “it is finished” was inspiring preaching one Easter Sunday and got you excited, and I don’t mean to be dismissive. But glibness does not serve God well, and we would all represent the Lord better if we would think about what we’re saying more carefully.

      Jesus’ temporal task was completed at that moment, but there is a great deal more that has to happen, both in us and in the Church generally. “In my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions…” Col 1:24

      • So do you believe from Father’s vantage point through Son Christ that by Father’s view you are now holy? I am not speaking from our viewpoint to be clear here: is the verse below truth or not?
        Colossians 1:22
        in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

      • I do believe that. My point is, “It is finished” does not say that, and cannot reasonably be used to demonstrate it–except as a neat rhetorical twist on Easter morning.

        The American Church has become shallow in its practices because it has become shallow in its interpretations (which was in turn produced by the ruin of American education). People are being robbed of real progress in the Christ because they have accepted shallowness as the standard. The cure is to reject shallow interpretations wherever and whenever they appear.

      • Okay let us maybe Fathom this, does the son take any credit or does son give Father all the credit? Now does Father take all the credit from Son as being the center of all, even though Father is? And the Holy Spirit of truth does he speak of the self or the Father and Son only as do the Father and Son only speak praises of the other?
        See this unselfishness, and dancing around each other in fellowship to each other as one yet three?
        Do you think we are to join in and do the same, not being the center of the universe as is what flesh wants.
        Dancing around and not desiring to be the center puts one in the center from others and never from self anymore get it I pray
        I am not the center and God has chosen not to be either which makes us one, thanks to Christ the Son

  15. New Covenant: LOVE, God’s type, 1 Cor 13:4-13, which no flesh can do, only God. So lets worship in Spirit and truth

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