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Commentary On “The Final Authority”

March 22, 2014

Greetings,

I want to start out here today by thanking everyone who has contributed such wonderful comments to my blog posts the last several days.  The Body of Christ really stepped up and added Her portion to the overall mix in a very tasty, savory and most excellent way.  The overall give and take positive dialogue dealing with a topic that has divided many through the centuries has been absolutely praise worthy and very productive.  Sharing these blog pages with such sincere sisters and brothers in Christ has been a great honor.  Today’s blog post comes from my dear friend and sister Debi Buck from Oklahoma.  What she is sharing here today is indeed worthy of prayerful consideration.  This is not the type of thing that is freely shared or pondered within the walls of Babylon.

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Chris,

I have never asked you to be a guest blogger on your site, but I am going to today, because what you have said previously is of utmost importance, and one of my passions.  

I’m going to dog-leg off of your last post about “The Final Authority” with the thing that makes me twitch the most. The view from this angle is at least worth looking at.

When men say “The Bible is the Final Authority”, what they MEAN by that statement is that THEIR understanding and interpretation of the Bible is “the final authority”. We KNOW that is so, because even if we pick just one “translation” of the bible, many different denominations which all use the same version are often in disagreement about the exact same words found in the single book on almost every topic imaginable.

Someone can take a passage, a verse, even a single word from the bible and if there are two or more people discussing it, they can each understand it to mean entirely different things.

Every single time I hear someone say something has to “line up with scripture”, I almost puke. Since there are so many demonizations, so many different paradigms and understandings of “what the bible says”, then when someone says something “doesn’t line up with scripture”, what they REALLY means is that the other person’s interpretation of the scriptures doesn’t match theirs, and so the other person’s viewpoint is automatically wrong. Or if someone’s viewpoint doesn’t match up with the corporately held position by the majority, then it is the majority who are considered to be holding not just the most popular viewpoint, but the only true viewpoint. The fact of the matter is that the majority opinion is seldom the right one, when it comes to God…Jesus…Holy Spirit….church….bible (etc, etc, etc.)

I am going to take the very verse that Bible Thumpers use as a foundation for their “Sola Scriptura” position and prove it.

II Timothy 2:15 says (in that “authorized” King James Version):

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Now scriptural literalists will tell you that this verse is “plain and clear”, and to the casual reader, or the one who takes all scripture at only face value, it IS clear, it IS plain, it IS simple. But it is still incomplete at best, and just a false paradigm at worst.

The context is talking about the “word of truth”, so on the surface level, we know we are talking about something called “the word”. It distinctly says to “study”, and that by “study”, you will be able to show yourself approved unto God, you are “rightly dividing” what is called “the word of truth” if you do this, so then you won’t be ashamed. Does it get any simpler? Nope. But the very verse here designed to speak to the masses as Jesus did (in mysteries, truth cloaked and hidden from them which He only shared with His disciples) hides a DEEP mystery that actually mocks “studying” a book in order to get God’s stamp of approval and not be ashamed.

When one gets past the point of just reading that scripture, and ASSuming that the word “study” means to read and meditate and learn stuff from a book….and ASSuming that the “word of truth” mentioned here automatically means “the bible”, you have to take away an almost completely different paradigm than the simplistic one you began with. Why?

Because when you dig into the words of that scripture, into the original Greek, the word “study” in the original language is “spoudazo” (Strong’s G4704) meaning: to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest:–do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

That word is also used 10 more times; each time it is rendered in the proper context of “being diligent”, “endeavoring”, “laboring”, etc. In no wise is the “usual and normal” usage of the word to be that of sitting down, reading, analyzing and coming to a mental conclusion through carnal logic, etc.

So if we expound on it by saying that we should be endeavoring, diligently, earnestly to show ourselves “approved unto God”, that makes it more related to our daily behavior as a whole (be the church daily, outwardly, to all you come into contact with) and not a simplistic daily or weekly practice or ritual (devotionals and bible studies and Sunday School classes).

Furthermore, Jesus BERATED the scribes and Pharisees for their “much studying” of the scriptures, analyzing, opining, pontificating, and scrutinizing of “their scriptures”. When Jesus, who IS “The Word of Truth” in the very flesh, was standing before them, they were BLINDED to Him BECAUSE of their “much study” and their own man-made interpretations and doctrines gained from reading the scriptures with a literal mindset devoid of the Holy Spirit.

Now let’s throw out our other “ASSumption” that the phrase “the word of truth” means and is synonymous with “the bible”.
(Go and get your inhalers and stop gasping for air, I promise no one is going to hell for being a Berean here….)
By ASSuming that this phrase “word of truth” means “the bible” we would have to logically ask ourselves some questions to decide how we arrived at that conclusion/assumption.

We arrive at it the same we do most of the doctrines we are spoon-fed. Someone told us, or brought us up in that paradigm, and so we just take for granted that it couldn’t mean anything else, because “the bible” and “studying” go hand in hand, and the scripture makes perfect, literal sense at face value.

But when these words were first penned (allegedly by Paul the apostle), the only collection of “scripture” was the OLD Testament (the Torah, the Prophets, the Writings, or the Tanach). Let me say this slowly for those of you having a hard time following this.

When this letter, written by Paul, to Timothy, was first penned, THERE WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT, THERE WAS NO “CHRISTIAN BIBLE”.

The “word of truth” spoken of here could NOT be referencing a King James Bible…indeed, nor any of the so-called “canon of scripture”, because the first “authorized, canonized” books making up what we call “the bible” HAD NOT EVEN BEEN PUT TOGETHER YET!!!!! It would be like watching a revolutionary war movie, and seeing George Washington pick up a telephone to call Paul Revere to give him the go for “the British are coming”, and Paul sets out in a Mustang car to deliver the message. Can you not see this??

Do you hear what I’m saying? It’s impossible for the phrase “the word of truth” to be referring to what we today call “the bible”, so “bible study” cannot be synonymous with “rightly dividing the word of truth” or “reading and studying” a book to show ourselves approved before God!! And if you will be honest with yourselves, if just doing bible studies was the standard for being approved, then only those with education enough to read and “study”, or those lucky enough to have bibles, would be the only ones stamped with a seal of approval. Can we seriously stand on this brick of false doctrine and remain there without it crumbling? No.

Now….if the phrase “word of truth” means what is spoken/revealed/inspired/illuminated to us by the Holy Spirit, it makes perfect sense, combined with the word “spoudazo”. And rightly dividing (interpreting, understanding, discerning, etc), that LIVING “word” spoken to us is extremely important. Jesus never once told his disciples to hold bible studies and church services to get the word out, and to teach others by that way. Don’t you think that if “going to church” and “studying the bible” were THAT important, that Jesus himself would have mentioned that???? We are told to “follow Him”, and Jesus was totally and completely at all times led by what He saw/heard the Father doing. HIS only background in scripture was the….say it with me….”Old Testament”. If you truly believe “what is written”, then you must go back to ALL the scriptures which repeatedly tell us that it is the Holy Spirit who will lead and guide us into all truth, who will reveal things to us, who will comfort us and lead us in every step. There is not a verse anywhere that says that understanding a book will do that.

Bibli=olators (those who idolize a book more than the writer of it) tell us that ALLLLLLLLL the answers we will ever need are in the bible.

Really? Okay, then tell me this:

I need a chapter and verse that will tell me whether or not I should change jobs and move my family across the country. I need a “word” that tells me whether or not I should buy a new car or who I should marry.” You, Mr. “The-Bible-contains-all-the-answers-we-will-ever-need-to-live-a-happy-and-peaceful-life”, show me where those scriptures are that apply to ME, the individual who is wanting to make life choices that are the best for me, my family, my job, my education, etc. You don’t know where they are, do you? The answer is that you can’t, because they aren’t there.

And if you say to “pray about it, and God will answer your prayer”, do you play “pin the tail on the verse” with your bible? Say a prayer, close your eyes, open your bible and just point at some place on the page, and hope to God it doesn’t say “Give away all you have and follow me?” Or how about the one in Isaiah where God tells him to go and cook his food over DUNG??? That would be helpful, right?

THAT is witchcraft and sorcery, my friends, pure and simple….trying to “conjure up” an answer by using an “idol”. Yes…an idol, and a “wooden idol” at that!! Your precious book of answers is constructed from “wood”. Paper is created from wood pulp, so in a manner of speaking, the book filled with paper pages you worship as on par with God is an “idol of wood”. I’m just pointing things out to you that you probably never thought of before. Do you even know how many verses in the bible tell us NOT to worship idols of wood and stone (law)???? Lots more than will support the reverence to a book.

And if you say that prayer is the answer, and you will just “know” what to do, then every Bible Thumper out there will have just proved MY point….that it IS the leading and witness of the Holy Spirit that GUIDES US as the final authority….not just the words written in a book, the understanding of which very few people have achieved on any significant level.

Now I’m going to tell you how I knew all of this.

I was brought up in a ‘bible-study is necessary” environment, just like many of you. I really believed it. And one day, I’m walking from my living room to my kitchen, minding my own business, not even doing anything but cleaning house and living life, and inside me, I “hear” this voice, this sentence: “Study doesn’t mean what they say it does.”
So after shaking my head, and wondering if I needed to cast out that demon who was obviously trying to trick me, I go and actually ‘study’ about “studying” (ironic, isn’t it?).

Once I got the Strong’s out and realized it was true, THEN the rest of the revelation began to pour into me, and I made the connections easily and effortlessly, because it was what God was doing with ME, at the right time. All I had to do was LISTEN when He spoke, and be “diligent” to show myself approved unto God (because I was obedient, not because I “studied”), and I learned how to “rightly divide” (in that instance) “the word of truth” which was spoken into my Spirit. And once you have received such an illumination and understanding that you KNOW doesn’t come from your own paradigms and mental gymnastics, it becomes a ROCK…not a brick of clay and sand that will eventually crumble underneath you.

Thanks for your attention. You don’t have to believe me, but you do have to hold it up to light and keep what is good. If you want to know the truth, to the point that even if it contradicts and completely destroys your own previously held paradigms, He will show you. If you don’t, and you only want confirmation of your idolatrous beliefs, He’ll let you do that. He’ll even send you a strong delusion (II Thess. 2:10-13) because you refused to receive the love of the truth, and you’ll just continue to hunker down in your own carnal ideas like millions of others do every day. He’ll even let you have prophets speaking to you according to the idols of your heart, confirming your false beliefs every step of the way (Ezekiel 14;1-12). THAT is written, old and new Testament, and I’ve seen it happen in myself, and I see it daily in others. Don’t be a fool, and stubborn and stiff-necked. All the Greek hermeneutics and theological gymnastics in the world can’t save you in that day.

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Hopefully Debi gave us much to pray about and consider here.  I, for one, am quite thankful that Jesus grants us total freedom to think outside of the institutional and traditional box.  This one should provoke some helpful dialogue.  I just love having a totally free & open place to exchange ideas.

Love and ….

Kirk Out !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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27 Comments
  1. Well, Debi, like Pepper Skeen from west Texas puts it, “We are having Bar-b-que tonight! Another holy cow just bit the dust.” You nailed it right on this idol’s nose. Jesus did not tell the disciples that after He was to go away, that he would send a gilded edge, leather bound book to take His place. He said, “I will not leave you,,, I will come again,,, I will send you a Comforter and HE will lead you into all truth.” As for the verse in Timothy you taught us about, you nailed it again. The Word of truth is that Spirit breathed word that Jesus speaks within us that cuts to the chase and brings revelation and conviction, dividing soul from spirit. That is where the “right dividing” takes place for HE, the Word of God, is a discerner of the thoughts and the intents of the heart. Another “holy cow” passage that does not refer to the Bible (read the context Hebrews 4:12-14), but rather the Spirit of Christ working in and among us. “In the beginning was this same Word,” and He is still working among us. He is STILL speaking! And He will be standing among us long after the last Bible is burned in fervent heat at the end with the rest of the elements.

    “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon it was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a robe dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.”
    (Revelation 19:11-13 KJ2000)

    • Debi Buck permalink

      Michael Clark, how the heck are you, brother??? Do you know how many times I go back in my mind and relive that Houston get together where we had “church” for 4 days straight??? I miss that, and still haven’t had any experience in other fellowship times like that one. Wish we had another big ole house to put up 25 or 30 people for 4 days straight with nothing on the agenda but whatever God wants us to do. Failing that, mebbe Chris would set up cots in his apartment for you, me, Pepper, BK and whoever else wants to join….I hear Michigan is lovely anytime except the winter….

  2. I do completely understand the impulse to stuff things down the throats of those who have been stuffing Bible Bible Bible down our throats all these years. They deserve it. However, it is very easy to go too far, and that’s not a good idea.

    Here’s where Deb goes a bit too far:

    Jesus never once told his disciples to hold bible studies and church services to get the word out, and to teach others by that way.

    But in fact, He must have.

    Remember when the risen Jesus met Cleopas and his friend on the road to Emmaus? He chided them for not believing what the prophets had written about the Christ. And then Luke tells us, “…beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.” (Luke 24:27)

    And then take note of how Peter preached the news to Cornelius and his guests in Caesarea:

    “And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.
    43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

    Note that phrase, “all the prophets bear witness.” Peter was referring to Old Testament scripture confirming the message that the Messiah would take away sins.

    Jesus was a 2nd temple Jew. So were all His disciples. Knowledge of the scriptures was embedded in the culture. He did not have to teach His disciples to study scripture; they all had done so since they were children. Jewish boys of that era were expected to memorize the Five Books of Moses (what they called the Torah, and we call the first five books of the Bible.) Jesus quoted or referred to every book of the Old Testament during His earthly ministry, if the gospel accounts are taken to be accurate. His apostles quoted scripture frequently when explaining the good news to their audiences, who were pretty much exclusively Jews or God-fearing gentiles (gentiles who accepted Judaism as revelation from God but had not formally converted.) They considered scripture authoritative and unbreakable.

    Modern audiences do not share the assumption that the writings of the Old Testament were inspired by God, nor that the OT prophets were likewise inspired by God. That makes it necessary to teach modern Westerners to study scripture so they’ll know what Jesus and His apostles were talking about. No, that’s not exactly the same as the modern, fundamentalist Bible Culture. But it’s incorrect to say that Jesus did not insist on knowing the Bible. Jesus didn’t say it because it was already accepted by everybody to whom He spoke.

    • Debi Buck permalink

      Okay, Phil…I told you that Jesus remarked to the scribes and parishes that their scripture knowledge was getting in the way of their discerning who He was. Your response was that “He must have” told His followers to do bible studies and go to church, which is just speculation, and impossible for you to back up with scripture. And you’ve obviously made the ASSumption that I place NO value on scripture at all. What I meant by what I said here is that the leading of the Holy Spirit trumps the scriptures, and THAT, my friend…”is written”. While you are at it….could you please tell where it says that after Christ, God would send us (another book) to either replace or add to the one they already had? I’ve been searching for that one for years, and still haven’t found it.

      • Skylla Moon permalink

        Holy Cow y’all !

      • Just, wow.

        I told you that Jesus remarked to the scribes and parishes that their scripture knowledge was getting in the way of their discerning who He was.

        It was not scripture knowledge getting in their way. It was an idolatrous attitude toward scripture, combined with arrogance. God has no objection to knowledge. Jesus clearly knew the scriptures as well as His adversaries.

        My point is, it is good to avoid making the Bible into a paper god, or even a paper Pope, but that does not mean that learning the scriptures is a bad thing. It’s not; it’s a good thing. Jesus and the Apostles all did it.

        Your response was that “He must have” told His followers to do bible studies and go to church, which is just speculation, and impossible for you to back up with scripture.

        I did back it up with scripture. Did you not read my post? Jesus and the apostles based their claims on scripture; they had to have studied it to know it.

        Moreover, nothing in my post is speculation. Not only did I provide scriptural instances, I’m speaking from solid knowledge of 2nd Temple Judaism.

        If you’re not familiar with the period, perhaps you should go read some source material describing it instead of quibbling with me. A good starting place would be Oskar Skarsaune’s very readable work, “In the Shadow of the Temple.” I also recommend online lectures of Dr. Michael Heiser, which can be found on YouTube.

        you’ve obviously made the ASSumption that I place NO value on scripture at all.

        I have made no such assumption (caps very deliberately omitted; please stop being rude.) Why would I have quoted scripture to you if I had made that assumption? I simply objected to a statement about Jesus that was historically false.

        .could you please tell where it says that after Christ, God would send us (another book) to either replace or add to the one they already had?

        I made this very observation in my book, “He’s Greater Than You Know.” If you weren’t so pugnacious, you might have gained an ally, since we agree on this point and some others.

        However, since you’re challenging me, note a couple of things:

        Paul quotes Luke’s gospel in I Tim 5:18, and calls it “scripture.” “The laborer is worthy of his wages” does not appear anywhere in the OT, but Jesus says it in Luke 10:7.

        Peter refers to Paul’s writing as scripture in II Peter 3:16.

        So we do know that the apostles considered some writing by other apostles to be scripture even before the end of the 1st century. This is true despite the fact that nothing in the OT or in Jesus’ teaching predicted the production of new scripture.

        Besides, if you really believe that the Holy Spirit can produce works that carry the authority of Almighty God (which He clearly can, since He is Almighty God,) why would you have difficulty accepting that He produced authoritative scripture, despite the fact that He did not say that’s what He was going to do in the Old Testament? You

        You’re the only one making assumptions and speculations here, Deb. You could have had an ally in me, but from where I sit, you’re too angry to make any real progress. You need to calm down and pursue God some more, and stop shooting at your friends.

  3. Debi, Thank you for your well written article! It is very hard for those who still accept the role of church, religion, and the Bible as necessary component to govern their lives, to open their eyes and be free. I think this level of change is just too scary for many. What I also find is the level of spiritual compromise that has taken place in many individual lives for so many years has lead to an unwillingness to see truth outside of the tiny church/bible/religion box. For example, when we go along with church think, even when church think is obviously contrary to Christ likeness, there may be an inward hardness and an inward price to pay. For many loved the praise of men more than the praise that only comes from God.

    One example is the treatment of humans who do not fall within the acceptable parameters of church allowed behaviors. Homosexuality is a good example. Would, no better yet, does Jesus eat with homosexuals today? Doe he he join in the party and drink wine, and tell a good joke today?
    Does Jesus inspire love with one gay man’s heart to love another gay man. or women to woman?

    These are the kind of thoughts that I love to think about, now that I am no longer in bondage to church, and the broad incorrect use of the Bible.

    • Dear Marc,

      As someone who’s had little knowledge of you, I have to confess I’m curious about the answers you’ve come up with (if you have ) to the questions in the second paragraph. Do you feel there are no borders concerning continued homosexuality? Do you feel He tells jokes of a risque kind, perhaps?

      Regarding the wine, I have been granted a detailed Scriptural answer to my query concerning the screaming of liars, false prophets, and brutish pastors that touching a drop of alcohol is sin. But the other questions you pose have me perplexed as regards continuing in those pursuits.

      Thanks,
      Ed.

  4. It is absolutely true that there is no record of Jesus ever saying anything like…Go to Church, read your bible or pay your tithe. It is all about faith and never about works. The ONLY thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love. And that type of faith and sincere love only occurs when we surrender to the leading of ONLY The Holy Spirit. Where folks are bible led it can quickly become all about producing dead works in the name of the holy book. So glad to be free of that bondage and discovering others on the same Spirit led path. Love to all, Christopher

  5. Phil and Debi, It is quite easy to talk past each other in an online environment and quickly take offense. Please take a moment to enjoy the things you do agree on. From where I sit knowing you both better than you know one another I rejoice in the fact that you do indeed share much common ground. Now you can either accept and build on that foundation or you can choose to become foes and focus only on your points of disagreement and lob challenges and skubalon at each other. I can see where you are both coming from and love and appreciate you both. You may never agree 100% on this issue, but hey I seldom agree 100% with even myself, if that is possible?

  6. Well said Chris!

  7. Jfowler permalink

    I am being so stretched by this dialogue! God has really been helping to set me free from ruts in my thinking. Thank you all for having such bold conversations!

  8. Debi Buck permalink

    Phil, This is exactly what I’ve been trying to get across here (generally, not directed specifically at you). When we don’t know intimately the person writing the words…and sometimes even when we do….what WE think or feel clouds the tone, the intent, the meaning. People’s perceptions are always the paradigm from which they view any interaction or intercourse.

    You don’t “know me”….all you think you know about me is what you have surmised from what I wrote. That isn’t just you, it’s all of us.

    First…I wasn’t at all angry, You “read” into my words an intention and emotion that wasn’t there….likely because I asked for chapter and verse? I dunno. But you appear to be at least a little bit upset because I apparently I said something that tripped your trigger. Sorry it set you off so bad, but I wasn’t angry. You “ASSumed” I was….(fyi, I usually always write that word that way, because of the axiom we are all familiar with regarding the word). Hope you didn’t think I was calling you an ass, because I wasn’t. Believe me, if I was….I’d have said something like, “Phil, you’re an ass” (you’re not, right?) 🙂

    I do take a teeny bit of exception that you feel I need some further education and instruction from books written by other men. I do read things written by others, but I try to take everything with a grain of salt and let the Holy Spirit confirm or deny the truth of what they write. And particularly, why did you feel the need to mention that you also wrote a book?

    At any rate, I appreciate very much how you worded this part:

    (quote) “It was not scripture knowledge getting in their way. It was an idolatrous attitude toward scripture, combined with arrogance. God has no objection to knowledge. Jesus clearly knew the scriptures as well as His adversaries.
    My point is, it is good to avoid making the Bible into a paper god, or even a paper Pope, but that does not mean that learning the scriptures is a bad thing. It’s not; it’s a good thing. Jesus and the Apostles all did it.” (end quote)

    Scripture is useful…very useful….but only when it is illuminated and quickened by the Holy Spirit, being then “alive”. Otherwise, it’s just as we are told: “the letter kills”. I like scripture as a tool, I use it all the time. But at the end of the day, without the “lamp” having had both the oil and the spark of fire touched to the wick, it’s just a vessel that is useless until the fire comes and lights the path unto our feet. It gives ZERO light until that match of the Holy Spirit sets it ablaze, and the light comes from that…not the lamp…not even the oil….no fire….no light. At all.

    Sorry I pissed you off, wasn’t my intention at all…I just ask very hard questions in a very blunt way. Thanks for responding.

  9. chewing slow, swallowing fast and digesting, Thank Debi

  10. oh and may I have permission to copy and paste in my blog

    • Debi Buck permalink

      Go right ahead. God gives it freely, so who am I to restrict it, right? How about a link to your blog so we can visit?

  11. Thank you all here on this subject, much appreciated for the openness, I think you can get to the blog I write at the bottom of underneath homwardbound , it is titled freed at last and it is godjustloveyou dot blogspot dot com I tried earlier to post it here and trying a different way now, anyway it is posted there and to maybe end this debate and see through this dark mirror, might we be reminded of this:

    The Bible itself does not set anyone free, too many different interpretations and separations.
    For it is the truth of the Bible that sets us free. How does one get the truth? It is only by God the Father that one gets the truth revealed to them and it takes much study, diligence to come through to the other side, not belonging to this world any longer. And as I said it is God the Father revealed why? For God chooses who will know and who will not, why? Because God knows each and everyone of our motives. If ones motive is for self-gain and is inconsiderate of their neighbor as in the days of Noah, don’t expect to be revealed truth that sets you free.
    Is not this what Lucifer did took God’s truth and used it for self-gain?
    So God will have Mercy on whom God chooses
    Now see about the two men that went into the temple, one proud and boastful in what he was doing, and the other crying out for Mercy.
    Luke 18:9-14

    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

    Loving you all from the heart of Father through Son Christ

    • "BK" permalink

      Really enjoyed this and these verses. Reminds me of Matt 16 (?) when Jesus told Peter he was blessed because ‘flesh & blood has not revealed this to you, but the Father’ then goes on to say ON THIS ROCK I will build My church. I don’t believe it was the revelation that Jesus was the Christ, but that THE church would be built on the fact each and every believer will receive their revelation from the Father (the Spirit) and then they’ll be on an unshakeable rock. “BK”

  12. Bible in Acronyms:
    B asic
    I nstructions
    B efore
    L eaving
    E arth

  13. "BK" permalink

    Just re-read slowly through Debi’s commentary again. Loved the paragraph about how it all started with her. My testimony is pretty much the same. I laughingly say in those days when the Spirit started whispering ‘that’s not what it says’ or ‘that isn’t true’ or ‘you should take a look at this or that’ it was SO foreign to my ‘vast Bible knowledge’ that I would say “Get behind me, satan!” and the Lord would obediently go behind and say, “It’s not satan….it’s MEEEEEE, GOD!” Grin.

    When Ken & I were in Africa the brothers there asked us if we would explain ‘the truth’ to them. They went on to say many people had come and one would show them ‘the truth’ in the Bible and they would believe it; then someone else would come and show them something different from the Bible so they would believe that. It was confusing to them so they desired us to show them what was true. Our answer was, “You don’t need us to show you ‘the truth’ in the Bible. If we do that, then the next teacher who comes by with something different will just add to your confusion. What you need is to realize YOU have the Spirit within you Who will lead and guide you into all truth….just like Jesus said. Practice listening to the Spirit and His peace and follow that. You won’t always get it right, but when you don’t He will show you along the way. This is how the Lord wants us to ‘know the truth’ and be set free.” The Peace that filled the room was certainly Him, the Prince of Peace. Love, “BK”

    • You wrote, “I laughingly say in those days when the Spirit started whispering ‘that’s not what it says’ or ‘that isn’t true’ or ‘you should take a look at this or that’ ”

      Just agreeing …I remember when, as a staunch Roman Cultist, I was troubled with questions like, “if the merits of the Mass are infinite, why do you need to ever attend more than one in your life? why do dead RCs need a ‘month’s mind’, and then annual masses on the anniversary of their death or birth? How do you multiply infinity by the numbers of those masses?”

      At the time, I was very afraid with these ‘heretic’ thoughts, and only long after came to realize that the Holy Spirit had been setting up my exit from the physical practices of Babylon. The day He told me, ‘you are as much of an idolater as the Hindus you sneer at’ marked the beginning of my permanent departure from the Roman Cult, and, later, its practices, as He slowly dealt with each of the rituals I had come to observe even in ‘personal prayer’. Call it overreaction if you will, but today, if I find anything in common between what I’m practicing (or some ‘church’) and the RC, I will first treat it with distrust and suspicion as from the enemy, and then seek a definite answer from the Spirit. And in that, it’s almost always just the intention that’s “mine”; He’s the One Who points out to me the facts….

  14. You know if we would see the entire bible word as the word of love, we might see what God is saying what true love is and no evil in Father. 1 Cor. 13:4-13 is Father’s love that I see Father wants to spread out in each person that believes. and the verses 1-3 are nothing but clanging symbols with out the Love God gives through the Son. that is ones self doing the works for rewards here and now, and just might be the only rewards these will get?
    Anyway asking God for my cup to overflow with his Love, that is unfathomable to the flesh, only revealed in Spirit and truth

  15. Re the cooking with dung, did Debi mean Ezekiel?
    No, not from rote learning, but a little ‘twang’ inside accompanying the question if it WAS Isaiah. I searched. I thought it was Jeremiah, but … Ezek 4:12-15. 🙂 Put the cosh to human ‘wisdom ‘ where I thought I even knew the book 🙂

    • Debi Buck permalink

      Thanks, Ed, for the correction. It was Ezekiel. Sometimes all those prophets look alike, and I forget which is which….:)

      • Welcome: -)
        At the risk of starting a conflagration, I’m curious about your take on the ‘KJV is an inspired translation’ argument that runs on and on at some sites. I was so perplexed by that that I plaintively asked the Holy Spirit to tell me. Based on the IBS-distributed paper version, I got what I think is a conclusive answer, but would like to hear others’ answers without ‘preloading’, because I’m not entirely sure about my copy (bought it at an RC bookstore in a nearby town ), and I’m not sure if there are any ‘customizations’ in it.

      • To me only the original in Greek is the inerrant translation new testament written in Greek. Everything else is a translation and there are many good trsanslations, not perfect translations, one error in every translation is the word Church. The word Ekklesia, that means the called out ones, was translated to the word Church, which means building, and God does not live in buildings. This is why Stephen was stoned to death for saying exatly that God does not reside in buildings

        Anyway the only way that truth gets separated from Error is by Father through the Holy Spirit of truth, the same Holy Spirit that led Christ

        So it is not any Bible translation that sets one free, rather the truth of the word of Christ is what sets one free to be in love praising and worshiping God, no matter what translation one reads, even if one reads a translation,, God reveals God in Love to you unconditionally and we just respond being the creation not the creator, news boys not editors

      • Oh, and regarding the forgetting ‘which is which’, you’re not quite so bad off as me. I’m reminded (with thanks!) that at one pseudo-church I attended long ago, they were passing around a printout of some hoax mail concerning a ‘NASA warning of 3 days of darkness ‘ in December 2013, IIRC. I read it,then remarked that somewhere, in the OT, I thought, it was written that when they are saying ‘peace and safety’… NOT when unbelievers were worrying… would sudden destruction befall them. In a couple of minutes, someone corrected me that it was from the letters to the Thessalonians…
        Humbling that I didn’t even get the Testament right :-/ but also a lesson that it’s better to be equipped with the ESSENCE of Scripture so the Holy Spirit brings it to mind,and mouth, rather than fall prey to foolish things.
        Two of the members there,whom i’d pick up and drop home after ‘services’, readily confessed to my questioning that they did not BOTHER to go home and review the sermon with the Holy Spirit, asking Him to test it for them. They looked at me as if I was bonkers when I told them that unless they asked the Holy Spirit to teach them from Scripture, they would NOT understand! Which is why, despite being starved for human fellowship, I’m still languishing at my residence – I have yet to find ONE person here (Goa, India) who even seeks guidance from Him… all I’ve ever met have set up their Nicolaitan ‘pesht-ors’ as idols in their hearts, and seem to actively hate those who’re hard-set on following the Spirit. These churches seem to mostly be offshoots of American organizations who have been bus-iness-ly ‘church planting’ here 😦

        I’ve been reading with interest about Chris’ interactions with police officer believers … and anguished because the obstinately RC ex-mother (Gal 4:26) will not allow (I think) me to invite any real brethren over (“open my house” as Chris puts it). She has,in the past, hatefully gloated over the fact that her fellow RCs had blocked efforts of ‘believers’ to acquire land for a cemetery in the village. High hopes she’ll tolerate real believers (if the Spirit leads me to such) in the house. As it is, living in the same house is already taking a toll on me – and I can’t afford to move out, what with prices as they are.

        But I’m reminded again not to worry about the morrow; let me receive His revelations concerning the spiritual evil I have to face today,and beseech His intercession; let Him take care of my tomorrows, and all who trust in Him.

        Peace,
        Ed.

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