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Not Counting Sins Against Them

June 12, 2013

Greetings,

“When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”  “Where, O death, is your victory?  Where, O death, is your sting?”  The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God!  He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm.  Let nothing move you.  Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.”  1 Corinthians 15: 54-58

So death has been swallowed up in victory.  Amazing!  In Christ we are no longer held in bondage to the laws of sin and death.  This is about total victory in Christ for every single person with no exceptions.

 In Christ the law of sowing and reaping or what some call karma is no longer in full effect.  At least not in the big picture pertaining to salvation.  Sure in the small picture of day to day life in Him, He uses sowing and reaping to teach us and build character in us.  However, grace and total reconciliation will eventually totally obliterate karma.  This message is clear in 2nd Corinthians 5: 19, where it states that God reconciles the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.  Plus on top of that God has made us Christ’s ambassadors and committed to us this message of grace and reconciliation.  

That means instead of us reaching out an arm to point out and judge sin in others; we should open wide our arms and accept everyone right where they are, and for who they are right now in this very moment.  Jesus did this for us while we were still sinners, so we should do the same for others with a glad and sincere heart.  Far too often “Christians” have required sinners to clean up their act before they would even offer Jesus and Christ’s love to them.

If we are truly operating in His grace and reconciliation we will love and accept everyone no matter what baggage or filth they may carry with them.  If we welcome them open and free they will then receive Jesus and He will help them get free and clean in His perfect timing.  We should NEVER require someone to get clean first in order to eventually bathe in Christ.  Love, acceptance, grace and forgiveness is what it is all about.  If we build relationships on that foundation everyone would have more hope and a whole lot more people would discover Christ.  After all, Christ in us is the hope of glory.  If we give people the love, grace, and reconciliation that Jesus freely offers, it would change everything for everyone.  Today I choose grace over judgment.  Who is going to join me?

Love and……

Kirk Out !

 

 

 

 

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19 Comments
  1. missdebra permalink

    Jesus came full of grace and truth. To experience truth we must judge between right and wrong. There is a balance. Jesus did not come with open arms accepting everyone and neither should we. He tells us not to cast our pearls before swine. That requires discerning who are the swine. In fact, as I recall, He whipped the moneychangers and called the hypocrites white washed tombs! We are not above our Master. The new testament is full of admonition for the church that we do judge between the righteous and the unrighteous in our midst. We cannot separate the two and experience the righteousness of God. As we stay close to the Holy Spirit we will judge righteously as He tells us to.

    • Debra, I know we always need to find HIS balance in everything, but I do not feel qualified to determine who is and is not a swine. To me it is like the wheat and the tares and I do not want to damage any wheat by trying to pull up the tares. Plus I do believe that Jesus did come with open arms accepting everyone. We need to always start with acceptance until HE tells us to do otherwise.

    • "BK" permalink

      Good comments, Debra. I have a few thoughts as I read. First, Jesus spoke on this earth prior to dying for all sin; under the law. Those same money changers He spoke of on the cross when He said, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do….”. Having said that, I don’t think accepting everyone as Christ has means that I have to cast any pearls before them…..only one, the Pearl of great price Himself. I agree that we participate in His judgement as He leads us…and included in that is knowing His judgement is unto victory, to set free. Even the word ‘wrath’ means “a violent passion” and comes from a root word meaning to reach out and pull towards oneself. Not push away, towards. I believe Jesus was the Inventor of tough love 🙂
      Great post, Chris, thanks alot, “BK”

  2. th love of God (agape is th love of God) doesnt remember wrongs…but th love of adam (phileo is th love of adam) does…only by th love of God that we have in Christ, is it possible to forgive offense and as we walk after the Spirit which is th newness of life, we dont take offense but receive all who Christ receives, by Christ in us…His love pours out, His life, not from th old man which remembers offense and is dead, but from th new creation that is born of God…we are th temple of th living God…

  3. missdebra permalink

    The Book of Jude, I Corinthians Chapter 5, II Timothy Chapter 3, Hebrews 6:1-8. Does anyone read these scriptures? Just to name a few, there are so many more where God tells us to judge whether people are in the faith or not, to wipe the dust off our feet when people reject the truth, etc. All grace without the balance of judgement is heresy, plain and simple.

    It is obvious that although many people on these blogs have stopped attending formal “church” they have not been purged of the lies of the enemy that are keeping them afraid to even discern who to give their energy, time, prayer, etc. for. We are required to be responsible with the time and the facilities God gave us. We are to grow up and discern. Please read the above scriptures and ask for the Holy Ghost to reveal the truth in this too long preached “no judging” doctrine.

    • "BK" permalink

      Hi, Debra. I looked up the verses you mentioned above and didn’t see anything about shaking the dust off our feet when people reject the truth. Like, Chris, I’m glad God didn’t do that to Paul, who was standing by when Stephen was crucified. Closer than that, I’m glad He didn’t throw me on the garbage dump when I rejected His truth and went my own ways. Chasten me? Oh yes! But He thought I was worth shedding His blood for and not giving up on. As I said, I definitely believe in ‘the balance of judgement’, but let’s take a look at a couple of those references you gave and maybe get a truer perspective of ‘balance of judgement’. In the event of
      I Cor 5, it was said to disfellowship this one so he could be SAVED, not destroyed….just his flesh & the lusts he was in. Bible scholars agree that he is the one mentioned in II Cor when Paul said to receive him back so he wasn’t swallowed up of overmuch sorrow. And then there’s the book of Jude that speaks of Sodom and Gomorrah in ‘eternal fire’….yet in Ezekiel we see her referred to as Israel’s sister, and of her salvation. I agree with judgement and chastening, but Christianity as a whole has given itself over the the ‘lies of the enemy’ you speak of. Agreed, let us be responsible and take a serious look at what we’ve been told those scriptures say…..they speak of a victorious judgement, not a cutting off. This isn’t a ‘no judging’ doctrine, it’s a ‘true and righteous and Godly judgement’ one. Hoping you will consider, “BK”

      • Hi BK,

        I somehow lost some of my email addresses, including yours. Would you re-send it to me please? I would appreciate that. Forgive me Chris for using your forum to do this!

  4. Debra, all sides of this issue could quote numerous scriptures to “prove” their point. I was born raised and reborn all outside of traditional religion. I don’t carry the same baggage as much as others who were part of the system before do. I just know that Jesus does not want me pulling up tares and damaging the wheat. Balance is critical here and there are times we should be “harsher” than others. But I do not discount the grace of our Lord to reach even those who we see as swine or dangerous. Blanket statements against those we disagree with do nothing to further the conversation. All any of us can do is share the portion Jesus has given us. When we each speak our share…that is when we find balance and truth. I refuse to write off those that some will call swine or worse. We all need to follow the paths that Jesus places us on so that we can reach those whose hearts He is already preparing. I am glad that Jesus did not write off Saul and instead changed him into Paul. Jesus loves everyone, including those we misjudge.

  5. Another thing….we are all gifted and Spiritually wired differently…and I am pretty sure I am called to reach those that are rough and tumble and what others would call swine and the like. Sure there have been a few times in my life when I had to kick the dust off my feet, but most of the time I have born good fruit reaching out to those others might ignore or write off.

  6. Great stuff, keep up the good work.

  7. No problem Erroll

  8. missdebra permalink

    Balance means to not discount either side. Balance means to judge when necessary and give grace when necessary all by the leading of the Holy Ghost. I have not discounted grace by any means, I have brought balance by not worhipping grace. As far as the comment given by BK, the scriptures referring to wiping the dust off our feet are Matthew 10:14 “And whosoever shall not receive you nor hear your words,when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust off your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgement than that city.” Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5 Acts 13:51 say the same thing.

    If you had a Strong’s concordance you could easily locate the scriptures.

    I have found that when people argue for grace without the balance of God’s judgement which He also amply displays in the Bible, they usually have secret sins or fears they cannot overcome temptations in their lives. They manufacture a pure grace god that does not resemble the Lord of the Bible. Arguing on this point when the word is so full of scriptures that require us to judge righteously is basically being in denial. The above scriptures were spoken by Jesus. I did not right them, He said them. I suppose if anyone does not like those scriptures, they will have to take it up with Him.

    God bless you all!

    • "BK" permalink

      Hi, Debra. I think if you re-read my posts carefully you will see I said I DEFINITELY believe in judge-ment and chastisement. I have certainly experienced both. I also have no problem with the fact Sodom & Gomorrah were judged….one only has to read the account in Genesis to give a big AMEN to that fact. What people miss because of the error of how it’s taught, is the PURPOSE of judgement….which is victory and purging….including Sodom (and no, I am not gay or supporting that sin). Hebrews 12 is clear on this. I know the UR folk are out of balance on this, but I am not UR, I just believe after searching the scriptures and reading them carefully (and, yes, using Strongs ALOT! 🙂 ) that Jesus did die for all, without exception. Grace is ever present, even in judgement. I don’t have any secret sins or fears, just a deep love for Christ and all He accomplished at Calvary and in His resurrection. Love, “BK”

  9. Debra wrote: “I have found that when people argue for grace without the balance of God’s judgement which He also amply displays in the Bible, they usually have secret sins or fears they cannot overcome temptations in their lives. They manufacture a pure grace god that does not resemble the Lord of the Bible.”

    I do not know of any places in the bible that say that God has given us a ministry of judgement.
    However, 2nd Corinthians 5 does say He has given us the ministry of reconciliation….”Not counting man’s sins against him.”

    I have no secret sins, fears or temptations. My life is an open book. I am all for balance, but if I am going to err, it will be on the side of grace.

  10. th Lord revealed to me tht th OT law was given to show man just how far he was from th rightouesness of God…from His standard…it was not given so that man could successfully fulfill it, bc even knowing what God demands or desires, dont make it possible for us to fulfill it…Christ alone is ht righteousness of God…apart from Christ we can do nothing…

    its th same with th commands of Christ…impossible for any man to do anything tht Christ commands…returning love for hate, praying for those who despitefully abuse us, returning blessing for cursing, good for evil…loving our enemies…th old man cant do any of it even knowing what is expected of us, we cant do it any more than OT israel could live out th law, th whole law, and so be righteous…

    but we have a better covenant…by th indwelling Spirit th new creation walks after th Spirit, fulfilling th law of th Spirit of life, walks in th newness of life…and we live, tho not us who live, but Christ lives in us…so all th judging, th discerning, th loving, th forgiving, th blessing and th fulfillment of th righteousness of God, which is Christ alone, actually IS by Christ alone, and we are living sacrifices, laying down before Him…apart from Christ we can do nothing…in Him, He lives and we decrease…

    its never a question for me of how i should treat ppl, but whether im tryna fulfill th commands of God by th old man, which seeks to know ‘how’ and ‘what’ as tho they are tools to be employed righteously, or whether th Lord is raised and shining His light so tht th power is of God and not th arm of flesh…no flesh will glory in His presence…in th OT men couldnt do it; it is th same in th NT…men still cant do it…but we are free to decrease in Him and when His (our, as Christ in us) light so shines, men see it and praise God…

    pharisees took th law of God into their own hands…many ppl do th same with th NT commands…assuming that ‘we can do all thangs thru Christ which strengthens us’ means that we are to do something in His name or that He strengthens us to do anything…apart from Him we can do nothing…we do by laying down our lives to Christ, not to men, not to be seen of men, but to be seen in secret by God…and th light that shines is Christ…and it s He who strenthens us to decrease so that He increases…

    Christ came, not so we can be righteous by th law of th NT, as israel supposed by th law of th OT, but so that we can live His life, and surrender our own…th only one able to forgive, to love, to bless and to discern is th Lord of Glory, and we witness Him IN us, and our lives are conformed to His image…Christ in us is th hope of glory, for us and all who we meet…

    and as to judgment, sin is already judged…it is conquered at th cross of Christ; forgiveness is th new creation, th new life raised from th dead and walking after th Spirit…

    th newness of life that Christ commands us, is impossible in th flesh, and is only possible as Christ lives and we decrease…its never a question for me if i shoulda judged someoen or forgiven them…we are to keep our eyes on Him and our minds stayed on Him…let Him be who He is toward all i meet in my life…bc He alone judges between living and dead….as much authority as th Lord gave th disciples to heal th sick, cleanse lepers and cast out demons, that authority wasnt surrendered over to them, but poured outta those earthen vessels by th power of God within them…it was never them who did any of that, but th Lord Himself in His ppl…

    whatever th Lord commands, to judge or not judge, to walk th extra mile or do not walk with them, He alone knows, judges and we, being led by th Spirit, simply follow…

    • "BK" permalink

      This reminds me of a brother’s experience some year’s ago. The Lord woke him up and told him ‘Go read the 10 commandments”. He did and went back to bed. Again, the same. The third time he told the Lord, “I’ve already read them over and over!??” The Lord spoke back and said, “You didn’t read them right. Read them with ‘if you be in Christ’ in front.” That’s kind of how I feel about those things in the law. My husband is of the same opinion that it is to magnify our shortcomings, but for me it is a description of God, and His love. And a description of how I act with His Spirit, His nature, alive and well within me. I don’t have to keep a list of sins, and watch my every step, because His blood has covered any of them, setting me free to keep my eyes on Him and walk to and in the victory He made available by reconciling me to Himeself. Romans 5 says I am reconciled by His death, and saved by His life i.e. Spirit, flowing through me. Indeed, ‘we, being led by the Spirit, simply follow’. Loved that. “BK”

      • BK…i can def agree that our hope is Christ –as all Scripture testifies of Him…what a glorious legacy from our Father…th law which kills (as its suppose to) is fulfilled not only by th one who never broke th law of God, but who actually IS th law of God…Christ alone fulfilled it in His life and with His life…sometimes when talkin about judgment, we forget that we too have been judged guilty and are crucified with Christ…to what end? to being raised with Him by His life…no truer forgiveness ever existed…th old man (flesh) dies and th new creation is raised (spirit)…apart from forgivensess of God, there is only death, not life after death; we are sealed with that promise of new life…God told adam he heeded th voice of his wife; abraham did th same when he lay wit hagar…adam was cast outta God’s presence and returns to dust…but abraham was forgiven…th different in these two is th presence of God…

        being conformed to th image of Christ is amazing by itself…but when we recognize that we are conformed by His work in us by th indwelling Spirit of God, that we put off corruption and mortality, and put on incorruption and immortality…and all of this is th unfolding of th finished work of Christ–works that we are to walk in–it actually takes my breath away…who could ever imagine such a thang possible????

        th old man is perishing, th new is raised…and th fruit of Christ, borne on th branches which is our putting on of incorruption and immortality, comes from th root…and yes, we are a demonstration of Christ, bearing fruit of righteousness, walking in His ways, according to His commands, but not as a rehabbed old man, but as a new creation which loves God and keeps His commands…

        all of th commands of Christ are sometime manhandled in th same way th pharisees put their hands on th OT law and prophets…wresting scritpures to decorate their flesh, achieving nothing more than self-righteousness and thinking themselves doing th work of God, when they were doing th exact opposite…its th same today with th NT…too many wrest th scritpures which testify of Christ, and thinking they are servign God, work them into self righteousness…those verses which promise we are strengthened in Christ and which command us to do this or that, are not meant to adorn ourselves as adam and eve dressed up in leaves (which are for th healing of ht nations)…nothing has to be decided by us, in fact, if we are walking after th Spirit …bc He knows where to lead…i do thinik we get into problems bc of offense–which certainly abounds, and none of us is immune to it apart from Christ… interesting thang th Lord told me years ago, that religions are all founded on offense…He showed me this in absalom (means father of peace) when he rebelled against his father angered by his sister’s rape and david’s seeming refusal to take up for her…i see th same thang happen when we are offended by how ppl act while they are claiming th Name of Christ…its so easy to wanna take matters into our own hands…but whether judging or forgiving or loving or being separate, whatever th Lord commands is only within His ability to perform it and all of th bible, and every word which proceeds from th mouth of God, is a great and wonderful promise that we will ‘do’ these thangs…walking in His ways, walking after th Spirit, obeying His commands…amaizng and wonderful…

        love is th fulfillment of ht law…not adamic love, but th love of Christ that pours outta His ppl as we walk after th Spirit and witness Him…judgment begins in th house of th Lord…us…and bc sin is already judged, and paid for by Christ’s sacrifice, we are now free to love instead of hate…to forgive as we are forgiven, to pour out Christ, as paul did, when he sweated Christ in prison…without measure, without taking offense, without putting our own hands on th thangs of God, but by bearing fruit unto righteousness…

        we are th aroma of Christ…a sweet savor to our Father…when He first called me, He told me this: I adorn, I decorate…and it has been all these many years learning that we are adorned and decorated with Him…

  11. Troi permalink

    On the subject of too much grace, sins, secret-sins…..can someone please define fo r me what is sin? okay i don’t mean the missing the mark stuff, or doing the good we know we should do or that’s sin stuff….i mean can someone make me a list of specific things i should and shouldn’t do? Just askin….because if i miss anything i might just have to hope for grace instead of judgement. that might be risky…..right?

  12. th old man seeks to ‘do’ th will of God; th new creation knows Christ alone has did and does th will of God…judgment coming outta th old man is unrighteous; judgment outta th new creation is righteous judgment bc it comes from Christ alone and isnt tainted by flesh…

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