Skip to content

His Voice Comes First (2)

April 5, 2013

Hello everyone,

In the midst of all the accusations of “false teaching” and such I have been on a mini vacation with my daughter Lydia in Chicago.  We have been staying with my dear friends at Jesus People USA.  Our housechurches welcome Glenn Kaiser as often as he can make it and he has been an excellent source of some accountability for me and our fellowships since 1976.  He knows me and my heart and he told me not to worry about these recent accusations.  I have prayerfully considered all that has been shared and I have come to the conclusion that I will not recant or change anything I have shared here on this blogsite.  If anything I am even more convinced that following the bible FIRST as THE Authority in the life of a Christ follower is a severely flawed and limited manner of perceiving Truth and Love.  I have also come to know that I am not the first person that Jim Wright has attacked concerning this vital issue.  I have received tons of confirmation about being Spirit led and NOT bible led.  So here today I offer another blog from a year ago.  My vacation ends Sunday, so I hope to be posting new blogs again soon.

**************************************************************************************************************

Greetings,

“…because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.  For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.  And by Him we cry “Abba, Father.”  The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in His sufferings in order that we may also share in His glory.”  Romans 8: 14-17

Here it is again…… “..those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”  Please notice again that we are supposed to be Spirit led and NOT bible led.  If someone is bible led it does not necessarily mean that they are a son of God, but if they are Spirit led they are a son of God.  It does not get much clearer than that folks.  Once again I am not saying that the bible is not important in the life of a Christ follower.  In fact the place that the Spirit leads us most often to for truth and confirmation is the bible.   However, being Spirit led is not limited to the bible; but being bible led leads to many limitations.

Another thing…. I was just reading Revelation and in chapters two and three we find messages to the seven churches and each message concludes with,,, “Let him who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.”  The Greek word used for “hear” is a form of akouomai, from which we get the English word acoustic and it means exactly what it says…to hear or recognize.  If we really want to know what God is saying to the church we need to listen to, and follow, the Spirit; NOT the bible.  Don’t throw your bible away, but only use it when the Spirit leads you to.

Finally Jesus said in John Chapter 10 that His sheep hear His voice and obey.  So where it comes to following Jesus and The Spirit we need to listen and hear His voice.  It does not say to look at and read the bible.  True Christ followers listen for His voice instead of always trying to make the bible His sole authority.  Of course when we do read the bible we can also hear His voice there quite often, but always remember that His voice is always more important than what is printed.  Right now some folks are shaking their heads and pulling out their hair because of what I have written here.  I will say this right out loud now…. sola scriptura is a lie.  The bible is not the know all and end all of the faith.  I am glad to have the bible as a most excellent resource in my life, but I refuse to elevate it to near Godhood.  I know this is a difficult saying, but what I am sharing is the truth in love, even according to the bible.  Listen for His voice.  He will guide you.

Love and …..

Kirk Out !

 

 

 

Advertisements

From → Uncategorized

21 Comments
  1. It is interesting that there are about 32,000 Christian denominations and sects that claim to use the Bible as their guidline, but rather they use the Bible as ammo to fire upon one another. The Catholic and early Protestant churches used the scriptures to justify killing one another! Knowing scripture is no safeguard. Satan knows the scriptures better than any Christian scholar and used them to temp Jesus to sin against His Father! This is why obedience to the Spirit of Truth is our only safeguard. Yes, He can and does use the scriptures to teach us, but there is no greater darkness than a seminary trained man that doesn’t have the Spirit of God ruling in His life. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Remember Jesus’ words to Satan, “Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that PROCEEDS [present tense] from the mouth of God.”

    • Very well said. The Bible, or words inspired by God, is a good thing to read and study, but the Word of God, the living and perfect Word, is Jesus. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This was Jesus, not a book. The book should not be elevated to be part of the Godhead.

  2. Chris and Michael, Well said, I could add nothing to what you both have said, except -A-men.

  3. This was indeed, an excellent post, and a good reply from Michael (hi Michael). Michael, you are right, the fruit of this doctrine of the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, et al, has been the most divisive period in church history. Know a doctrine by its fruit.

  4. Since you reference me, without linking to anything I’ve actually said or written, permit the grace to offer a link to one of my blogs which may be relevant to the discussion:

    Beyond Scripture? (Part 1): http://crossroadjunction.com/2012/10/05/beyond-scripture-1/

    The second part of that series also is on point.

  5. Jim Wright, I gave you that blog posting free, but from now on please enter the dialogue here on this site.

  6. That blog is my contribution to the dialog, since you simply accuse me in your post of attacking you – without giving any indication or explanation of my concerns.

    BTW, these issues are too important to reduce to accusations of “persecution” and personal “attack”. I have done neither. In fact, I have raised my concerns well before your recent posts, and the blog I reference was posted last year. It is not about you, but takes on the views you’ve lately been expressing in public.

    Vigorous debate and clearly cutting to the the core of an issue are not personal attacks, and it is not persecution. Taking on the mantle of victimhood, and crying foul at public critiques of one’s public views, is unbecoming to among who profess to be leaders in the Body of Christ.

    This an important and needed debate, and I urge you to approach it as such.

    • "BK" Zimmer permalink

      Jim, one comment I might make at this juncture is did it ever occur to you that Chris K is not always referring to you when he says he has been attacked and called a heretic? Because it often is not you. “BK”

  7. Jim Wright, I am not a victim at all and who cried foul? You are allowed to post here on my blogsite even though you deleted posts from those who supported me and my views on your facebook page. It is unbecoming when you shut down the other voices on the opposite side of your personal viewpoints.

    • Chris, let’s keep it honest.

      I publicly stated on my Facebook thread – as you well know – that I had deleted several comments by two men who had become vitriolic and sunk to personal attack. I also stated that I had allowed all of their other comments up to that point.

      I have NEVER deleted a post which was civil and on point, even if it vigorously disagreed with me.

      If those two men who crossed the line were your “supporters”, I’m sorry about that. But I will not allow uncivil rhetoric on my nickle or on my forums.

      I am having a big problem problem with some of your recent posts and comments – they are drive-by hit and runs because they make inflammatory statements that exclude the full truth and context.

      I think you are better than that.

  8. Yes Jim, let’s BE honest! It is my belief that if you can’t be honest, you can’t be anything.

  9. “Supporters”? That’s funny, Jim Wright. Chris is a brother I’ve walked with for nearly 20 years, had some nasty fights with him, had some appreciative thoughts with him.

    But when we disagreed, the value of the blood of Christ is so much greater than the disagreement, it always has come back to that common bond. In the end, we both understood the Lord a little better for our interaction, because both of us see Jesus alive and at work in the other.

    When the very best points are made in argument with you, Jim, you actually ignore them. Sometimes straight out. Sometimes using rhetorical devices I am trying to figure out why you do that.

    When my pastor friend challenged you on your FB page to a reasonable comparison of the casualties of “existentialism” vs. “Inerrant, infallible Bible-ism”, he had you. You brushed him off and blocked him almost immediately, and he was very, very polite with you.

    Could you give an answer why you did that? I really want you to try and categorize that under “vitriol” or “personal attack”. Go on, try.

  10. And Jim, if I get frustrated with how you treat my friends at times, please be assured that it’s normally because there is something about them that you are missing because you are failing to relate to them.

    When I asked you about the simplicity of Jesus’ statement on the Spirit leading to all truth, vs. the complicated theological construct that “Bible as final guide” must be, you did not answer. You actually waited long enough for me to show frustration, and then you blocked me with the excuse of personal attack.

    Will you ever be able to give an answer to that one?

    • Jim, you perfectly illustrate the problems I’ve had with some of your posts on my forums and on my nickle.

      I directly address an issue, but you keep asking and asking and asking the same incessant thing over and over again – as though no one gave you enough personal attention.

      You then become more and more vitriolic. I have permitted your comments up to that point, but when it becomes uncivil or crosses from a debate on the issues you or I might hold, into ad homimen personal attack, I start deleting and blocking.

      In my opening post on Facebook that you now reference on Chris’s blog (for reasons that escape me), I directly addressed your question – contrary to your repeated claims (here, there and where ever) to the contrary.

      Quote:

      “So let me get this straight. We are to be led by the Spirit. But that can’t include the Spirit leading us to truth via the Bible? Because the Bible is at odds with the Spirit or something, right?

      There are so many existential presuppositions packed into your blog that it’s hard to know where to begin.

      Sigh…”

      There then was extensive follow up discussion on that very point.

      I’m sorry if that’s not adequate, but then again, God didn’t give me life to dance to your tune.

      You have my answer, and have had my answer from the very first. So please, move on…

  11. Some are sent to consume energy and time…..don’t let them.

  12. Jim Wright, why do you have to be so condescending? You come across as arrogant and smug. That does not help the conversation at all.

  13. Jim, my original point was this:

    1. Being let by the Spirit to all truth was a straightforward statement by Jesus.
    2. Arriving at the Bible as the primary guideline to stand as judge over all Spirit statements requires a very complicated theological argument.

    You actually did not once answer that objection. And your quote does not do so.

    But if you do believe the man-made and complicated theological construct over the straightforward one for your own life, you are my brother. However, if you prescribe your complex construct as the only correct one for all others also, you do not trust Jesus’ statements that his sheep would know His voice. You believe your voice is more important.

    And please be honest about this:

    “I publicly stated on my Facebook thread – as you well know – that I had deleted several comments by two men who had become vitriolic and sunk to personal attack. I also stated that I had allowed all of their other comments up to that point.

    I have NEVER deleted a post which was civil and on point, even if it vigorously disagreed with me.”

    True or false: You blocked Pastor Jeff Staples on Facebook, who had asked you politely, with no vitriol whatsoever, to compare notes with him on the casualties of Jesus’ spirit theology vs. Bible first theology? And blocked him, though there was no personal attack?

    Jim Wehde

    • I allowed a number of comments by the guy you reference, but he too started going off into increasing shrill, personal attack, so at a certain point I deleted a couple of his comments – while keeping all the others.

      Out of curiosity, how do you now to profess to know, Jim, what those other comments said, given that I deleted them within seconds of being posted???

      Look, anyone who reads my blog can see I allow rigorous debate and disagreement. I stand on my reputation for transparency and openness, while on very, very rare occasions deleting things that cross the line because violate appropriate standards of civility.

      I simply note that even I have my limits when it comes using my blog or Facebook page as a forum for increasing vitriolic rhetoric that sinks into personal attack, but I have exercised my right to moderate such comments, in over four years of blogging and literally thousands of comments, on only three occasions.

      If that offends you, then you’re just going to have to get over it.

  14. Much of your apparent reasoning in tearing fellow members of the body of Christ down in the over-generalized and under-defined area of “existentialism” is that it leaves much damage in its wake.

    At least you should be willing to actually compare notes on the damage, vs. the damage that Bible-over-all theology has created. The latter is pretty significant.

  15. After some examination of Jim Wright and Fulcrum Ministries, this is what I found. Hopefully it will put his comments into perspective.

    http://bartbreen.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/who-is-jim-wright-nathans-voice-fulcrum-ministries-and-crossroad-junction/

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: