Skip to content

Heretic?

March 15, 2012

Greetings,

Well, I am being accused of heresy again.  For the first time in over a decade the kind of things I post here on this blog have been brought into severe question.  I have been rebuked and told I need to stop “Bible bashing” and “leading people astray.”  Apparently I also have a “low” view of scripture and those who follow this blog are my “prey.”.  The main accusation is that I am “trying to encourage the ways of Chris Kirk and not the Word of God” and I am the kind of person the book of Jude warns people about.  Read Jude if you get the chance?  Pretty heavy stuff in that little epistle.

I will admit that my view of scripture is not traditional or mainstream, but I think I have a very high view of scripture.  I just refuse to give it the same place as God Himself.  Father, Jesus, Spirit are at the top of my list on who to follow and I refuse to give the bible the position of the 4th part of what many call The Godhead.  After all it is The Spirit Who leads us into “all truth” and without The Spirit’s illumination of The Word it is all just dead letter.  In fact I read and use the bible all the time, but I won’t bow to it and give it the place of being a God in my life.  I encourage people to be Spirit led and not bible led, this is true, but I also admit that much of the time what the Spirit is leading us to do is read and follow the bible.

As far as leading people “astray” and those very same people being my “prey” goes…. I just don’t see it and neither do the people who I am accountable to.  If anything I encourage people to break free from human leadership, including my own, and to be led by The Spirit in all things.  I don’t want people to follow me.  I want them to follow Jesus.  I don’t have any minions and no one has given me a cent.  However, in following Jesus we will also begin to recognize that some of the teachings of traditional religion are not all that biblical and that we often times need to UNLEARN what we have been taught in order to truly follow HIM.  Taking into full account that human tradition nullifies The Word of God.

I am not going to dig my heels in and defend myself concerning this matter beyond what little I have written here today.  I encourage everyone to QUESTION EVERYTHING, including every single thing I share here in my blog.  Some of you have questioned some of my posts in the comments section of these blogs and I appreciate being called to account.  In fact I love accountability.  So please feel free to interact, discuss and question anything I may say here in blogville or anywhere else.

So what do you think?  Am I a heretic?  Have I said anything I need to recant?  Do you know of any sin that I need to repent for?  Like I said, I know I color outside of the lines of traditional religion, but have I gone too far?  Do the warnings in the book of Jude currently apply to me.  Am I immoral or worse?  All these things are up for discussion all of the time.  I really don’t mind being labeled a heretic by mere men, as long as Jesus does not view me in that way.

Love and….

Kirk Out !

 

 

 

Advertisements

From → Uncategorized

10 Comments
  1. "BK" Zimmer permalink

    I think it was Peter who said people found the things Paul wrote hard to understand and wrestled with them. It’s like that still today, especially when people hear or read things that go so against what has been the status quo for 2,000 years. Sometimes they start out going, “Wow! This is the best thing since sliced bread.” but then find like Jeremiah did the words are sweet in the mouth but bitterin the belly. I say all that to say there will be many a time one will sign in here and then get a bit shaken at the shaking of things so long taken for granted. And yes, go so far as to call it heresy.

    Anyone who reads this blog can see you START usually WITH a scripture and then build from there. You don’t change it, you share how it effects your life. And, yes, when you need to give some clarification or receive adjustment, you have shown a willingness to do that.

    You are right, Chris in it doesn’t matter what label people on you, whether heretic or apostle…or hertical apostle :). It matters that you stay honest in heart to hear the Lord if He speaks through any tirade, accept what He quickens and let the rest go. Just walk on, brother. Love, “BK”

  2. Kirk, when I was a kid I was told by the Catholic nuns that God was not approachable by us low-life laity sinners so we should pray to Jesus… but if we really want our request to be heard by Jesus, we should pray to Mary and then she would go and tell it to Jesus for us and that would work because He, being her Son, has to listen to His mother. Then Jesus would go to the Father with the request and that was when things would get done. Then there were the specialists in these different matters, the canonized saints. There is a “patron saint” to be prayed to for every kind of request we can come up with, one for the travellers, one for finding lost things, sick animals, aids patients, salesman… you name it, but we were to NEVER think ourselves worthy to pray to “our Father who is in heaven”!

    So eventually I became born again and I became a Protestant only to find out that the same system exists in their ranks as well! The chain of command of all spiritual knowledge must be adhered to or you might become a heretic! God > The Spirit > The Bible writers > The Bible translators > The Bible scholars > The Bible knowledge teachers (pastors, evangelists and Sunday School teachers, etc.) > and finally the ignorant laity.

    John wrote in 1 John ch. 2 that many antichrists were already among the church in the form of human teachers. He was addressing the plague of Gnostics that was coming in among the churches out of the schools of Alexandria, Egypt–- those claiming to have special knowledge of all things spiritual. Is it any different today? Yet our defence against this misleading plague today (from which has sprung over 200.000 Christian denominated groups) is the same as it was back then, “Listen to the voice, Luke!” What is that Voice? The unction we have been given when we were born from above by the Spirit of God… His voice within us. Jesus sent the Spirit to lead us into all truth, not scholars or translators, or teachers or even a leather bound, gilded book that has often been “translated” by men with no inspiration from God at all! Yes, that inner Voice, the Spirit of God, the Unction, the Comforter is who guides and leads those who are born from above. Sure He can and does use the Bible, but He is not bound by what men say about it!

    The early church existed for hundreds of years without any personal Bibles in their gatherings, yet they had such an impact on the world that they were accused of turning the world upside down! How could this be? They followed the leading of the Holy Spirit in all things necessary for the growth of the ekklesia and obedience to God. Yes, there were deceivers and that is why so many letters were written by Paul, Peter, John, etc.. to the churches, but they never intended those letters to take the place of the Spirit in the body of Christ! Today, scholasticism has trumped the living Spirit of God and this kind of knowledge puffs man up and many egotistical un-crucified men are allowed to lead the church as its teachers.

    Yes, we who are born of the Father are placed in a body of believers who are to listen to His voice, but they are hard to find because religious man is taught that he can’t trust God’s voice, that he will hear it correctly. But if you find another brother or sister in whom the cross of Christ has dealt with that old Adam within– who is not easily deceived by their flesh– THAT person with another one who is born from above or even three or more.. they will come into a common understanding of what the truth is. If we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. Where two or three of His saints are gathered together in HIS name (not their own agendas) He has promised to be there in the midst of them and “the Word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.”(Hebrews 4:12-13 KJV). It is obvious that this passage is talking about the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ.

    Remember, when Satan was using scripture to temp Jesus, the Son of God said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that PROCEEDS from the mouth of God.” And Jesus said to His disciples, “The words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.” Listen to His Spirit and live.

  3. Martin permalink

    My role in society, or any artist’s or poet’s role, is to try and express what we all feel. Not to tell people how to feel. Not as a preacher, not as a leader, but as a reflection of us all.
    John Lennon

    • "BK" Zimmer permalink

      Ohhhhhhhhhh, I like that. Great quote! “BK”

  4. Chris, I can’t help but think that you are partially to blame (*partially*, mind you) for an assessment of heresy. I don’t agree, of course, as I think the worst anyone could say was that sometimes you’re in error- but not heretical. Biiiiiig difference there… heresy involve a denial of the gospel itself- including the nature of God- and a person who is guilty of heresy cannot inherit the kingdom. IOW- they are NOT a Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.

    But to my point: When you make statements like the above “be Spirit led and not bible led”, most of us who have been Xians for any amount of time recognize that you are setting up a false dichotomy. A TOTALLY false dichotomy (I’m emphasizing it to make the point) that also denigrates the very nature of Scripture itself.

    Or this one: “…I refuse to give the bible the position of the 4th part of what many call The Godhead.” Again, a false assumption- a straw-man- since nobody is suggesting anything close to that admonishment!

    Since the Bible is THE “theopnuestos” of God, it can NEVER be held up as a competitor for the true leading of the Spirit. I gladly recognize that without the Spirit, I would still be dead in my sins and trespasses. DEAD. I also recognize that for you to say some of the things that you do about God’s Word (along with some of your allegorical interpretive conclusions), you demonstrate a less-than-mature handling of it. Sorry- but I gotta calls it as I sees it.

    Jesus should be (nay- must be) the example for us in how we view the Bible- or, put another way, our view of the Bible must not be any less than His is. Most of our “traditional” views of Scripture aren’t. Traditional, that is. The *new* tradition is to view the Bible with some suspicion, with some reserved judgement for those areas that cut against our modern sensibilities, that offend our egalitarian assumptions, or that contradict our sense of fairness.

    I love you in Him, and pray that you can take this for what it’s worth.

    • Reformed by the Holy Spirit permalink

      Tim, I am simply astonished.

      Let me say, first, that I am very reformed in my theology. I am reformed to the point that I really don’t talk with people about the lengths that I will take that stance.

      Second, I am going to apologize publically and ask your forgiveness for inappropriate comments I made about your profession in the first version of this post. I was wrong in saying what I did. I have asked Chris to remove my post so I could edit it to remove those statements. I was wrong, I am sorry.

      As one who was raised in a Presbyterian church, I can easily say that we (those who are reformed in theology) often uphold the Westminster Confession’s position on the Bible higher than we uphold the Bible’s statements of itself.

      We need to be careful. Yes, the Bible is God inspired….God breathed. I can see how the Holy Spirit influenced the writers as well as those who have had to decide upon which scriptures should be canonized. I see God’s hand in giving us something we can hold in our hands, see with our eyes and hear with our ears. I don’t deny the value and priority of Scripture.

      I don’t believe that Chris is denying that either. He is simply saying the same thing that we, as reformed believers, are saying: It is God who draws us into relationship with Him.

      If you are going to hold to the five points of Calvinism, then you believe that it is God who calls the elect. If you believe that, then you believe that the grace of that call is irresistible. In order for it to be understood as grace, then you have to have the revelation from God that you are fallen or “depraved” in your sin. If man is unable to understand this on their own, then it has to be the Work of God, or even better yet…the Work of Christ. Christ’s work is doing the will of the Father. And who did Christ send to lead us onto all truth? …The Holy Spirit!

      Now, I have to ask: Does Tim have to be right all the time, when it comes to theology. Even to the point of telling a brother in the Lord that his take on Scripture is “less than mature”. What if you are wrong…..then what?

      I urge you to refrain from comments like that. There is a much greater wisdom found in listening and considering what is being said; as opposed to touting one’s own belief system as superior.

      Believe me, from every point of view I have seen in the Body of Christ, each sect (both Catholic and Protestant) has incredible perspective that is very worthy of considerations. God has given us His Word to help us filter out the bad and leave the good. However, we cannot know that maturity without the Holy Spirit.

      And that is the point.

      So, don’t call it as you see it. Just wait. The truth has a way of exposing itself. That is why we must choose our battles.

  5. Thanks for your input Tim, Of course we disagree, but that is alright. Because I know folks who elevate the scripture to a place equal with God Himself. To the point that the bible, and their opinions of the bible are practically worshiped. Tim we live in different theological circles and see things from very different angles, but I love you and am glad to have you as a brother.

  6. I noted your remarks on the Bible. People can treat the words of God as if they are God. Jesus said the words testify of Him and Paul said people wrote as they were inspired by the Spirit. God is larger than His book. God is incarnate in the Bible – but the thing incarnated is never on the same level as the One who incarnates. The complete revelation of God is Jesus. So I believe I’m with you on this one.

  7. DanG permalink

    Hey, Hippie
    Here is what you said above:
    “After all it is The Spirit Who leads us into “all truth” and without The Spirit’s illumination of The Word it is all just dead letter.”
    I am interested in information that makes you carry on about the Bible.
    Do you have example of people that worship the Bible?
    Do you have example of the Spirit leading against the Bible?
    Do you have example of the Bible leading against the Spirit?

  8. Dan, there are tons of people and whole denominations that claim the bible as their “Sole Authority”, to me that is bible worship because it takes the place of God Himself and all the ways He reveals Himself. I have never had The Spirit lead me directly against the bible, but the Spirit has led me to do things not specifically covered in the bible. Some interpretations of the bible go against The Spirit and also go against the bible interpreted correctly. Like those who use scripture to support Clergy and paid ministry. Anyone else out there want to weigh in on this one?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: